As I train under my instructor our group has formed a pretty tight bond. However a difference of oppinion will always remain relative to our individuality.
Regarding Bin Ladin and the " War on Terrorism" I have supported action and have voiced my oppinion of even more drastic retaliation.
My teacher holds true to the mohist philosophy of “Universal Love” (love everyone as though they are your family…). His only suggestion is that we just try and pass on this type of thinking, and will help to transform the world for the better.
Though I can see that if everyone thought in this manner the world would be a more peacful place, the reality is the same for any other philosophy or religion. Not everyone is going to buy into it. To me, the likes of Bin Ladin could care less to anything you or I have to say regardless of the logic. I believe in dealing with him and his kind, diplomacy is lost.
Some people were on the news today protesting the bombings today, but when asked for an alternative to war, the protesters had no response, other than diplomacy. My question is how does diplomacy work against someone who is not willing to listen to you unless you are willing to submit to his will. I am not willing to submit to Bin Ladin and it is doubful that anyone in the U.S. is even those protesting. So what now.
I think peace is a good thing.
I also think it is a good thing that people like me are willing take action to protect those who are too ignorant to protect themselves.
Our country was raped on 911 and we are in the process of finding the rapist. I feel no guilt in being american, and I am not going to be made to feel guilty of being american. The social equivilant of this is telling a woman who was raped that it was her fault for walking down an alley or wearing revealing clothing.
Fu<K that!
Our planet is nowhere near seeing eye to eye locally or globally. So recognize hostility and answer it accordingly.
Personally, I don’t think it’s the role of a good Buddhist to allow a cancer like Bin Laden to eat away at innocent lives.
In my practice of life, I don’t preach peace when the peaceful and innocent are being unjustly attacked. I roll up my sleeves and go to bat for them - if it’s possible for me to do so.
I actually had one guy (not American, but German) tell me that my kung fu was “evil” and that I would’ve been wrong to attack the terrorists on the plane.
I’ll say this: if MY plane ever gets hijacked, I’m going to attack since I’ll probably die anyway.
And I will do so without remorse whatsoever - such would be my Buddhist duty to preserve the lives of others.
What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by stupid naive
hemp-shirt-wearing idiots, to teach them why force is sometimes needed:
Approach the lead idiot talking about “peace” and saying there should
be, “no retaliation.”
Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.
When he says “No,” ask, “Why not?”
Wait until he says something to the effect of, “Because that would
just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should
not cause more violence.”
When he’s in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
When he starts to get back up, point out that it would be a mistake to
fight back and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would,
“be awful and he should not cause more violence.”
Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional
violence.
Help him back to his feet.
Punch him in the face again, harder this time.
Repeat steps 5 through 9 until they understand that sometimes it is
necessary to punch back.
For some reason, I recently bought a book of writings from The Nation. I think since I graduated college my brain has been more or less dead and felt like I actually wanted to learn!!?? Anyway, there was an article in it, maybe I’ll post the quote sometime, but it was about an these anarchists who were on trial for throwing bombs at a riot nd it killed a bunch of cops. The author argues for the death penalty saying “It is better if they become a martyr for thousands, than an incentive for a few imitators”. That is, if you let them live, others will do the same thing. At least if you kill them, you are letting the next person know they will get the same thing. Hope I’m not overexplaining here.
Also,
I think there is a “silent majority” around the world who are with us and just don’t want to say. I don’t think people will spit at americans and call them murderers for this.
You can’t always be the good guy. That’s what it’s all about I think. Look at the Dalai Lama, he preached peace and lost his country.
If one considers reincarnation or truly believes that life is everlasting, it may be difficult to indulge in revenge… only to perpetuate the karmic cycle of violence.
I believe that those we encounter in this life may be encountered in the next.
It’s the innocent bystanders that bother me the most, the children who suffer because of the actions of misguided militants…
Martial Arts can help us redirect our anger by learning how to control it. As paradoxical as it may seem, the martial arts may be one of the best ways we can promote peace on a personal level.
Whatever we do, we can be sure that our actions will resonate in the world around us.
I don’t want to bring my religous beliefs, and my views that go along with it up on here. But I will say this: Sometimes revenge is the best self defense.
Although violence isn’t sometimes necessary, there are times where you have to just cut the bull**** and stand up and defend you and others around you. You can’t just blow things off by thinking they will get theirs.
Perhaps “you” can’t, but to believe that you can’t or that others can’t may only become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I doubt that I could always turn the other cheek, but that does not mean that I don’t admire the hell out of someone who has the courage to do it…not to prove they have big egos, but in a situation where other people may suffer the consequences of their actions, and they consider the greater good.
Consider the possiblity that you CAN. You just might surprise yourself, and change the world for the better in the process.
If we do nothing, they do it again. Turning the other cheek just sets them up for another more devastating run at us.
Like I said, the world as a whole, let alone our own country, do not think in the same manner or possess the same values. Our words are lost on some, and some words are lost on us. This discrepancy leads us to clash at times and at these times distasteful as it may be violence serves for self preservation.
It isn’t revenge. We are simply returning the violence back upon. them. We are not accepting the violence the terroist have given us so we are returning it in kind.
I don’t see the US and others as striking out in vengence. I see it as more controlling future acts of violence against us and others. Remember, some people are trying to regain their country from tyrants and unjust rulers. Who takes over and how they take over will make all the difference.
I have the unfortunate belief that some people are not redeemable. Bin Laden is one of those unredeemable people. If you believe that in reincarnation, let’s return him to the cycle. If you don’t, let’s take him out of the gene pool.
Old Monkey. What would you do, if someone who didn’t like you would shoot one of your family members everyday? Would you just simply turn your cheek? How long would it take you to realize, that you have to take this guy out? After one relatives death? Two? Three?Five? Just a hypothetical question. But my point is, if you know someone is going to do it again, or someone else might follow in suit, don’t you think it’s time to take action?
“What if…” is exactly my point…I’m really glad you framed your question that way.(Read sincerity, not sarcasm.)
The words “what if” presuppose a reality that does not exist, it’s only in our imagination. By asking me to imagine a senseless act of violence, it may be that I begin to partipicate in the creation of those or similar conditions…thus the self-fulfilling prophecy. (i.e. if I seek it, I will find it…)
The “what if…” game (as I like to call it) in this case appears to be prompted by fear.
If we want to play “what if…” let’s imagine something wonderful instead of something horrible.
Let us not play into the hand of fear. That is the trap of “terrorists.” We will not defeat our enemies by killing them…they have already committed themselves to death. However, we may ‘defeat’ them by transforming them.
I feel terribly for the survivors, those who lost their loved ones. In our zeal to “DO SOMETHING” we have responded in many wonderful ways. But I believe that no amount of vengeance will return their loved ones or ease their suffering…I’ll stop there…I will not speak for them, only they can do that.
Here’s a wacky thought: Let’s adopt the children of Afghanistan made orphans by the war and raise them to be good Muslims…talk about changing the world…
however I don’t support the forcing or pushing of any religion. Spirituality, yes.
But all this goodness does not answer the question of what to do about the terrorist themselves. The ones that don’t want to hear anything we have to say. The ones that serve no purpose other than to kill us.
I’m not harping on the evil, just the reality that is.
OK, all this philosphical blah-de-blah is great. But let’s remember one simple thing…September 11th was not a “what if”. It wasn’t a drill. It wasn’t practice for reality.
If the terrorist organizations are so ready to have their souls released from their bodies, I’m more than happy to give them what they want.
The children of Afghanistan are going to be far better off after we are finsihed over there then they have been in quite some time. Here’s a news flash…many Afghans are celebrating the fall of the Taliban! I personally know some Afghans and Persians here who left their native countries specifically because of all the ridiculous religious garbage groups such as the Taliban and Fundamentalist Islam tried to force them into. They support the war effort and have become proud Americans. Bless them and the innocents.
But I didn’t say “what if” in that that whole sentence. I said"what would you do" and you failed to answer. You focused on a fragment of my question in order to avoid it. A question that could easily be reality. I’ve had similar 'real life situations" in which I would not like to discuss. It’s easy for one to say we should turn the other cheek, but then again YOU didn’t lose anyone in 9/11. At first I thought the same thing. Turn the other cheek. But then I tried to put myself in their(the families who lost someone)situation. Even though I’m not in their position, If we don’t nip this in the bud I very well could be. If you don’t think this would happen take a look at some of the european countries. Like England. They have terrorist attacks seems like monthly. There not as high profile but they happen . England tried to turn the other cheek once and guess what happened, they were still being attacked. Turning the other cheek can be thought of as a weakness. It may not be, but to terrorists it is. And they will try to expose it.
I believe the universe is built on logic. All things exist within this logical construct and so no master can truly mean anything which is illogical. The bottom line is everything is made of everything and there is no duality. But there are different things of the same essence.
What am I getting at? Am I just reciting what I read in a fortune cookie or is there something else.
Well, I believe that Christ has set up an equation. How many times are we to forgive those who offend us? That is the question he was asked. His reply was that they should be forgiven in multiples. Unfortunatley few delve below the surface of their great teachers. If there is no one left to forgive after the offense is committed then the equation breaks down and can not be fullfilled. If I am dead, how do I forgive the sin which was the instrument of my death. What is meant by offense. This is why there are always contradictions in spirituality. A time to love, die, and kill. Yet love thy neaighbor as thyself. All true.
In this matter, it is clear that these men have no inclination whatsoever to enter into the forgiveness arrangement which Christ speaks of. If we sacrifice ourselves what will the result be. Will it change their hearts. In this case, it would seem the answer is no, since many have died at their hands (Cole) and our cheeks were turned. Since we must love them as ourselves, if we were beyond our ability to live within this respectful dynamic, I would imagine we would wish to be given another chance. Next time. It is also clear that their methodology is consistently being upgraded. It seems clear that their next attack if not stopped, will be even more vicious. It seems clear that their next step will be something nuclear. It would have been if they could have developed the capability. Each of their attacks has been to the apex of their ability.
I do not personally believe that the many people who are talking about peace truly understand what happened on 9/11. It is easy to say things like ‘they’ died. We must realize that these crimes were perpetrated against US. Me. You.
My own master has stated that sometimes doing nothing accomplishes nothing. His take on this situation is vastly different from that of the Dalai Lama’s. Personally, I agree with Shi Yan Ming.
D A M N I T!!! I knew it would happen eventually. But please guys lets not turn this into a religious debate. Because this discussion has to deal with more about morals than anything else. Richard Sloan i like the last two paragraphs you typed.