Hello Bacon
I was wondering if I could ask you a few simple questions about your background in the martial arts in general and CMA in particular, would you mind answering them?
And duh. The moves in Shaolin sets have Qigong and Neigong embedded in them, they enhance your health while training. In “real life” the moves from a routine are not done in a series like in the Hong Kong chop sokey films. They are done free form, the one that is needed comes through at the moment necessary. It is the Chan (Zen) method of learning that makes this possible, the mind and body work as one. Self defense is not a sport, it is not done in the ring, like MMA. It is done in response to an attack, the body-mind responds. A kick is not a kick, a punch is not a punch. They might look like one on the outside, but in execution and application they are done as take downs.
I have done Shaolin application demos at TKD, Karate, and MMA schools, then they get it.
[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;1183882]And duh. The moves in Shaolin sets have Qigong and Neigong embedded in them, they enhance your health while training. In “real life” the moves from a routine are not done in a series like in the Hong Kong chop sokey films. They are done free form, the one that is needed comes through at the moment necessary. It is the Chan (Zen) method of learning that makes this possible, the mind and body work as one. Self defense is not a sport, it is not done in the ring, like MMA. It is done in response to an attack, the body-mind responds. A kick is not a kick, a punch is not a punch. They might look like one on the outside, but in execution and application they are done as take downs.
I have done Shaolin application demos at TKD, Karate, and MMA schools, then they get it.[/QUOTE]
Finally someone that gets it.
I wish Sal would have commented on what he knows about the actual history of the form.
Anyways this is some of what I know about the form, most of it is from different Chinese articles I read on it. I can’t Guarantee it’s 100% accurate but I’m too lazy to go back and check everything so I’ll do the best I can from memory. If anyone has any questions I can look it up again for more detailed information, or probably just send you some links.
Green Dragon Exits Sea was created by taking what was considered the 24 oldest, most practical, and most representative moves out their old Luohan material. It’s not known exactly when this was done but likely during the Ming dynasty.
The form was supposedly lost by the time they started rebuilding the temple a few decades ago. But it is practiced by the Shaolin monks in Kaifeng so I don’t know if they preserved it or got it from folk masters.
It is also practiced in Chang Jia Quan and many people believe that he (Chang Naizhou) learned it along with his Xiao and Da Luohan sets from master Yan in Luoyang (and likely some of his other Shaolin related material like Da Hong Quan, Hei Hu Quan, Bai Hu Quan, and Pao Quan).
It is also part of the Shaolin Liu He Quan style taught around Dengfeng. This is interesting because it is recorded in some Qing dynasty manuscripts that it is a companion set to Liu He Quan
It is also recorded that it fits? (can’t understand whether what I was reading was saying it was part of a system taught with these sets or that they could fit together as opposing sides of a two person set) with I think (if I remember properly) a Hong Chui set and a maybe Five Tigers something set?
There are two roads of Qing Long Chu Hai Quan. I would like to know if any one lineage preserves both. (although both are still around)
The first video that Xian posted isn’t like any other version I have ever seen. I would really be interested in knowing where it came from. It is extremely “hard” looking, usually the form is known for it’s blending of soft and hard Luohan methods along with it’s dragon like waves in the spine. It’s almost like that version is mixed with Shaolin Hong Quan. (although the moves are still mostly recognizable)
I posted links to most of the other traditional versions earlier, but here is the Zhengzhou Shaolin Liu He Quan style’s version of the form.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzI1NDY2MDAw.html
[QUOTE=Bacon;1183282]Wing chun, muay Thai, bjj, and mma.[/QUOTE]
So basically no martial art that has forms training…
I can’t count that you know much Wing Chun because you’d know from its few short forms that things are not applied the way they look in the forms. If you fought just like the Wing Chun forms it would be useless too. Don’t know why listed Wing Chun first.
So what is your basis for criticism here? Just parroting your sport fighting friends it seems.