Seminar at Ashville tournament

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
21

“It seems that he covers only 4 of the 5 leaking this time. Would there be another seminar soon to cover the last one - Dodging (shan lou)?”

Hi Robert,
Becuase of the time limitations we can only go so far on dodging. Actually they all did the first stage of dodging. Which is to move the body to safe distance as the opponent attacks.

The next level of dodging can not be explained academically, though I gave some examples at the show.

When the defender does not know which attack the attacker is using the crucial aspect of dodging comes into use.

"Anyway, it’s great. I for one will be looking forward for the DVD when it comes out. "

This can happen.
I need to reshoot all the attacks and add in many exciting variations that we didn’t cover before I show it out.

About the initial attack…

In the seminar I met many people I don’t know so I used the initial attacking hand called yang zhang. To the west it is the back hand.

In the last seminar I did in Tampa last year I used the straight attacking method emphasized in your TJPM’s strike 4 gates(first punch only).

At the Asheville I did not go into detail on the differences. I will mention them here.

Yang Zhang has the following characteristics:

  1. the fist/hand is pointed at a direction away from the opponent’s face making it appear as though a strike is not coming. Though I didn’t emphasize that here.
  2. It is an excellent defensive strike which works against many types of offensive strikes-hence its similarity to closing hands.
  3. It is superior in changing to grabs to the neck, hair, wrists etc.
  4. During mid strike it can change to yin zhang, or the cleaving palm(one type of cleaving palm) of a very strong forward momentum
  5. It is superior for applying pressing actions.

the straight punch:

  1. faster, more direct, more powerful.

Though they both have their short comings. When training people I don’t know in large groups yang zhang is easier to teach and safer as well.

But I disagree that one is better than the other. Instead, you must use the right tool for the situation at hand. The training helps to develop that awareness.

Kevin

22

"I missed when you were asked specifically…so…what is it? "Shibo’', “Shibua” or “Shibuo”

Hi Oso,
It is shibo.

“I had to give my shoulder a rest after your seminar…definitely stressed it a bit…so I’ve laid off a bit, only going through it slow.”

I had to make hearing aids with my toes for 3 days.
I think we can adjust the moves for you so it does less to your shoulders and still keeps all the power.

“My school is still all abuzz from your visit. Thanks again for taking the time to come up here.”

I am happy to have gone. Look forward to meeting your and Jim’s crew again.

Kevin

23

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the offer. I really appreciate that. :smiley: It means a lot.

Also thanks for getting Kevin in the posting mood. lol…

Hi Kevin,

Wow, when it rains; it pours! Talk about a concise in Greater Meihwa line methodolgy! I have to say, the outline that you gave is already a full article.

Where do 5 leaking hands fit in?

First comes the 8 stances. For beginners you can stay there as far as forms are concerned for up to 6 months or a year.

During this time there is also internal development, the so called nei gung.

About that it is said,“The first attainment is to accumulate strength. Cultivate the qi and perfect the spirit. This is the Luohan’s accomplishment on the path of achievement. Accomplishment can be attained after one hundred days of practice.”

This is an important aspect of training the internal organs to avoid damage to them at a later date.

I agree whole heartedly that this is fundamental training that is vital to the future success in Tanglang. I believe the later stage this will be revisited as well. Entry level and advanced level all in one.

Then there is the training of the grabs. Before learning the strikes come the grabs and how they work. This also develops the grab strength so at this time throwing the bag is important.

Nice!

Then the kao da. Training of short strike methods… for example:

  1. Chao Tui
  2. Calf Strike
  3. Deng Pu
  4. Chao Tui with Deng Pu
  5. Deng Ta
  6. Knee to Belly
  7. Hip Strike
  8. Rib Strike
  9. Kick to Back or Back Strike

These are the one that you worked on in the seminar?

[qoute]Also a good time to start throwing.

Kao Da has 11 purposes:

  1. Strengthen Bones
  2. Apply Iron Body skills (check 3 Huai, 9 Zhuan for a better term)
  3. Brings an understanding of short strikes
  4. Trains for fall
  5. Trains resistance against strikes and defense
  6. Allows full power strikes against the proper targets
  7. Trains several Mantis grabs
  8. Strengthens the gripping power
  9. Develops rooted stances
  10. Learn about opening and closing gates
  11. Trains proper distance for techniques[/quote]

Absolutely good call. I also think that there’s properly #12 which is “a degree of power generate from the root.”

What Kao Da Doesn’t Do:

  1. Stress cardio
  2. Stress immediate reaction time
  3. Train combinations
  4. Explore hand strike methods
  5. Train the initial attack

I think I would rephrase #2 because it does somewhat help to stress immediate reaction time. But it’s more about single strike or single combination. It doesn’t stress continuous reaction time though. Also #4 it also help with the kicking (ie side kick) IMHO. But again it doesn’t stress the continuous reaction time.

Kao Da Categories

  1. Kicks Kao Da
  2. Short Strikes Kao Da(some are listed above)
  3. Throws

While all this is being taught it is a good idea to teach:

  1. the solo kicking methods
  2. forms
  3. hitting an object(bag, pole etc).

Agreed. :slight_smile:

After these have been taught it is the time to begin the training of the 5 leaking hands. The pick up where kao da leaves off.

I am drooling to see these!

Next the student can train in the following:

2.18 Essential Hands
These 18 methods are used on the initial attack.
3. 12 Essential Bu Jao Bu Jia Techniques
A method of dodging the opponent’s strike and countering.
4. 12 Techniques of Interconnecting and Substituting the Block and Strike
In these techniques the strike and block are interconnected.
5. All the Interconnected Hands Which Defeat Chaotic Hands
A combination of hand and elbow methods.
6. 12 Coiling Elbows
The short strike elbow techniques.

Finally the application of the moves of the forms.

Did you cover any of these in the seminars? Just curious.

Warmest regards

Robert

24

Hi Robert,

“I agree whole heartedly that this is fundamental training that is vital to the future success in Tanglang.”

Well, for my branch at least. But different schools do things differently so I would not want to say this.
For example the TJPM, 7* and 8 Step all have the material arranged differently even though there is a lot of overlap. the names and order of arrangement are different.

"I believe the later stage this will be revisited as well. Entry level and advanced level all in one. "

I like your second sentence. The most essential things should be presented first since they make the most deep impression.

On Kao Da…

"Absolutely good call. I also think that there’s properly #12 which is “a degree of power generate from the root.”

Yes, I don’t know how I forgot that one. I think that should have been the first or second.

As for reaction time in kao da my philosophy is this.

In Kaoda we are working off a convenient rhythm which makes it easy to train the technique. In some other stages, such as parts of the seminar where we trained 5 leaks we will deliberatley
not use a rhythm. So the student must act reflexively attacking and defending.

I think I have listed most all of what was covered. A large chunk of time was spent having the class running from attack to attack. After attacking me the student would run to another line and attack the other teacher.
After that had happened for a while, us teachers would run around the room attacking all the students. So it looked a bit like a crazy melee.

This way they have no time to talk and ask questions, but just learn from their mistakes and from others mistakes and success.

Kevin

25

Tournament results are now posted:

http://www.ashevillemartialarts.com/SACMAT/

26

Shibo, I use this “sun & moon” line as much as I can, it is a very good way of training. Isnt this an old way of training large bodies of people organized for warfare? My students enjoy this method and so do I. And this quote sums it up quite nicely. “This way they have no time to talk and ask questions, but just learn from there mistakes and from others mistakes and success”.

Shifu Hui, I am very curious about entry level and advanced level all on one. Can you expand on this sir, thank you. I`m firing up the printer. :smiley:

27

I think you are right about this. Indeed, it is wise to take into account of the differences of the styles on what aspect(s) of the fundamental training is/are more emphasized.

"I believe the later stage this will be revisited as well. Entry level and advanced level all in one. "

I like your second sentence. The most essential things should be presented first since they make the most deep impression.

Thanks, glad you like it. :slight_smile: I am on the same line of thought as you on this.

On Kao Da…

"Absolutely good call. I also think that there’s properly #12 which is “a degree of power generate from the root.”

Yes, I don’t know how I forgot that one. I think that should have been the first or second.

Well, lol… It’s easy for an observer to pick out stuff. You have a huge amount of inform to pour out all at once. It’s amazing that you typed out 99.999999…% and you properly know that I am just being an @l about little details. :smiley:

As for reaction time in kao da my philosophy is this.

In Kaoda we are working off a convenient rhythm which makes it easy to train the technique. In some other stages, such as parts of the seminar where we trained 5 leaks we will deliberatley
not use a rhythm. So the student must act reflexively attacking and defending.

Ah… Yes, I can see that. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think I have listed most all of what was covered. A large chunk of time was spent having the class running from attack to attack. After attacking me the student would run to another line and attack the other teacher.
After that had happened for a while, us teachers would run around the room attacking all the students. So it looked a bit like a crazy melee.

You know this is on thing that I think I have missed out when you came visit. I wish I have an army of students standing by to do this form of training with you. I am sure my students and I would have benefited from this.

This way they have no time to talk and ask questions, but just learn from their mistakes and from others mistakes and success.

I like this kind of format that you have laid out. Great stuff indeed. BTW, I would like to comment on the Yang Zhang part next when I have more time.

Kevin[/QUOTE]

Warmest regards

Robert

28

Hi Jim,

I envy you guys that you have plenty of opportunity of direct access to Kevin for a lot of great stuff that he has. You should be taking full advantage of that. :slight_smile:

For elaborating my statement about the entry level and advanced level all in one, we first do a recap on this:

Where do 5 leaking hands fit in?

First comes the 8 stances. For beginners you can stay there as far as forms are concerned for up to 6 months or a year.

During this time there is also internal development, the so called nei gung.

This could not be more ture for me at least at this stage of my journey. I don’t think this simple truth that Kevin spoke of should be over looked especially if you are a die hard Greater Meihwa Line practitioner. The internal development (re: meditation that is specially designed to foster a type of keen concentration for MA and even beyond) is the most direct and power treasure imbedded in Tanglang Kung fu. The simple almost mundane standing meditation that is done at the beginning of the practice in the traditional Taiji/Meihwa line is most beneficial because it directly deals with the very “heart” of the practice which is one’s “self”. Sun Zi in the Art of War wrote perhaps the most crucial thing about the truth of combat - know thy self and know thy foe. This can totally be achieved through diligent practice of the standing meditation. If you have attainment in the standing meditation, the rest of the gong (ie 8 pieces of brocade, 3 returns 9 rotations, etc..) becomes a whole lot easier and a whole lot more meaningful and even enjoyable.

You might be aware that I highly value the CCK TCPM 8 basic stances which I use to teach quite a bit of Tanglang fundamental concepts (ie 12 keywords) out of it. So again I totally agreed with Kevin that good portion of time should spent on getting a good grasp on the stances. If we want to do high level mantis, how can we neglect the fundamental building blocks of mantis? BTW, this doesn’t mean that you should stand in the stances for 8 hours striaght. That’s doesn’t help other than giving you some strong legs.

About that it is said,“The first attainment is to accumulate strength. Cultivate the qi and perfect the spirit. This is the Luohan’s accomplishment on the path of achievement. Accomplishment can be attained after one hundred days of practice.”

This is indeed great quote from the text. I echo on the Cultivate the qu and perfect the spirit. It is truely the essence of Kung Fu.

This is an important aspect of training the internal organs to avoid damage to them at a later date.

Health and martial prowess is propotional as stated in the 18 Luohan Gong Text which is at least around since mid 1700s. It is unlike the modern day new age believe that you can be a couch potato and do Taiji in the nude once in a blue moon and you’ll be enlightened :eek: … So… Merits can only come with hard work. One needs to constantly invest in one’s self (or the disolving of self) even facing constant losing battle between the body, mind and spirit.

Warm regards

Robert

29

Hey all, Can someone please add our school to the Ashville Tounament mailing list. We are always looking for great Chinese martial arts events.

Citong Shifu.
www.kungfutaiji.com

30

Citong Sifu: I will add you guys to my list. I will say that future tournament that I put on will have a heavier element of fighting. We had some decent matches but light contact is for the birds.

my favorite quote by my shifu is "If you hit fast enough and hard enough, there are no ‘if’s’, ‘and’s’ or ‘but’s’ "

totally true.

so, heavier contact and weight classes (yu shan, let JoJo know that ones for him)

Health and martial prowess is propotional as stated in the 18 Luohan Gong Text which is at least around since mid 1700s. It is unlike the modern day new age believe that you can be a couch potato and do Taiji in the nude once in a blue moon and you’ll be enlightened … So… Merits can only come with hard work. One needs to constantly invest in one’s self (or the disolving of self) even facing constant losing battle between the body, mind and spirit.

fvcking well said. there is no difference between internal and external. can’t have one w/o the other. both require time and hard work…hey, what’s that mean in chinese??? :wink:

31

yes sir

your school will do nicely in the full contact arena. I was pleased at your fighters tenacity, it resembled the same presence i stress in teaching. by the by, Master Yang has told me to mention the columbus battle that he is directing (as far as chinese fighting is concerned, it is a great place to get blooded for younglings.
There are many fighters there yearly , and it works up as good practice for our Wu Tang hall of fame open in Akron where last year alone there was 60 San Shou fighters (that one is in october) go to www.wuma.com for columbus info.

THe nice thing is many fighting styles step into our San Shou ring to taste the chinese rules, so you will get the chance to taste other styles in columbus
James

32

Oso,
Thanks! Heavier sparring is fine with us… This has been a problem with our school and some of the tournaments that we have gone to. We just can’t play the tag game, lol. But, Oh well. What one to do. Anyway, we would enjoy the fellowship. Definitely count us in for your next event.

Citong Shifu.
Ron Davenport.

33

SD: thanks.

Not sure I can get to that event in march…I’ll be in Tampa the weekend before and maybe most of the week.

CS: I’ll be in touch. I will most likely be heading the next one on my own so I may wait 18 months or so instead of trying to have it right at a year later…february isn’t the best month to have one here anyway.

34

I need to bone up on the San Shou rules. The contact in our division wasn’t light, necessarily, but it could have been heavier too.

35

JP: No, it wasn’t light by any means. Technically, your division was ‘medium contact’ to the body and legs and ‘light contact’ to the head.

I wasn’t exactly meaning full contact. I think there could be a San Shou style format w/ the same gear that wasn’t ‘full contact’. Unless I could get a certified full contact referee and judges I won’t go ‘full contact’. Plus, insurance for a full contact venue is probably high.

I want to do more of these, the way I think they should be done. But, I’m going to progress steadily and try not to bite off more than I can chew.

36

Oso, thats ok. Just keep us in mind. We would be more than happy to support our kung fu brothers and sisters abroad. I understand how harf it is to sponsor an event, we’re looking at throwing our first event in the Winter ot 07. I’m in the process of working with some of the Masters here in the MidWest and their tournaments in hopes to aquiring their support when we host our event. It’s tough… We will most definitely charter ours as a National event if we can get the support. Anywho, good luck.

R. Davenport.

37

Oso, thats ok. Just keep us in mind. We would be more than happy to support our kung fu brothers and sisters abroad. I understand how harf it is to sponsor an event, we’re looking at throwing our first event in the Winter ot 07. I’m in the process of working with some of the Masters here in the MidWest and their tournaments in hopes to aquiring their support when we host our event. It’s tough… We will most definitely charter ours as a National event if we can get the support. Anywho, good luck.

R. Davenport.