Hi all, does anyone have any thoughts about these 3 schools and the sifu’s that teach there:
Shi Xing Hoa at the Shaolin KF academy
Shi De Shan at the Shaolin Tample USA
and
his “buddy” Shi Xing Ying at the International Shaolin Wushu center.
I am looking for the more traditional so I think Master Shan would be best. I did meet him before I moved down here and he seemed cool.
If you have ever trained at any of these places or no someone who has your input would be great. thanks in advance.
the search button is your friend
I’d do a search on this forum since there’s a ton archived about the Houston monks here. Search each one of their names. Search ‘Houston’. The answers are out there.
Thank you for your insight grasshopper
I have searched. I did not find anything relating to my question. I would like to hear from people who have trained with these schools and get their opnion.
Please no crap. These boards are filled with pages and pages of off topic crap. the threads start with one thing and end with star wars or something. I did read something about Xing Hoa but thats about it.
Rage,
I am a student of Shi Xing Ying, but I know all four of the monks in Houston. De Shan is a traditionalist and a hard Qi Gong Master. Xing Ying, Xing Hao, and Yan Feng however, teach both traditional and modern. We all (their students) learn the same forms but teaching styles are different from Master to Master.
I know that with my Master, if you don’t want to learn modern wushu then he won’t teach you that and will stick with traditional. During class he only teaches traditional forms and weapons anyway. He has a separate class for modern.
As far as teaching styles are concerned, our Master is very generous and interactive. Meaning that as you are learning the forms he will show you as many times as it will take until you remember it. I have heard that some of the others are a little less patient. I have heard that De Shan will show you a sequence five times and if you don’t get it then you get hit with a stick. This is the traditional way though and the way that they do it with the monks at the temple according to my Master.
As far as the general way the classes are conducted it is the same with all 4, we start with warm ups, stretching, drills, and then the material, and afterward conditioning. There are probably some variations among each Master on this however.
I am speaking from experience with my Master only though. The rest I have learned from students of the others that have left the other schools and joined with us. Whatever Master you choose will be fine though, they are all awesome. So it is really just a question of whose teaching style you like the best and the only way to figure that out is to try all of them out and then decide for yourself.
PK Style Z can give you some good info and I am sure he will since he has trained with all four of the monks in Houston.
Thanks, now thats a reply. I guess getting hit with a stick is Qi Gong. Training within training. lol now thats a bargin. I read some things about De Shan and Xing Ying splitting up but nothing “official”. I did go and talk to him when I came down here last year early summer and he seemed cool but very broken english. I hear Xing Ying speaks well. I will stop at all the schools for a schedule and see where Im at. Thanks and any more info from anyone (cough, cough PK Style Z, cough , cough) would be great.
Didn’t find anything? You must be blind as Master Po!
When I search Xinghao, I get 10 threads. Here’s a good starter for Xinghao:
Houston Shaolin Kung Fu Academy & The Shaolin Monk Tour Deshan also produces 10 threads, albeit many are redundant. Xingying is only at 3 and Shaofeng only one deleted one (MK strikes again! :rolleyes:) As Yanfeng, he gets 5. Here’s a good one for Yanfeng - Shaolin Monk Shi Yan Feng Website. Note that I only did the search with the fahao combined (which is proper pinyin, but proper pinyin is seldom relevant), ie. Xinghao vs. Xing Hao. Of course, if you separate Xing and Hao, you’ll pick up a lot of noise, but that might be fruitful. Somewhere buried in the archives, there is a listing of the websites of all four Shaolin Houston schools. I think Songshan posted that, but I’m not sure. I got bored doing your research for you, rage911, so I gave up on that.
There are representatives of each of the Houston schools on this board, although they aren’t as active now as they used to be, so you’ll find discussions of each of these schools from students that are involved, if you just do some research. Houston produces some 43 threads at this time. Houston Shaolin has been a major topic of discussion here over the years.
Additionally, you can look at our website magazine archive, which has its own separate search engine. We’ve covered all four of the monks over the years, mostly in our Shaolin specials. The best place to start is with my 1999 December cover story, Shaolin Brothers Go West: Shi De Shan and Shi Xing Hao, Two Shaolin Temple Monks, Begin Teaching in America. That’s the beginning of the Shaolin Houston saga. You can also look at the documentary I worked on for PBS with our former editor Martha Burr Shaolin Ulysses - Kung Fu Monks In America.
I was not aware of the pinyin and i did seperate it in searching. Maybe that was part of the problem. Most of the links do not work such as the link in Shaolin Monk Shi Yan Feng Website. I will also check the magazine archive.
One of the reasons I posted a new thread is times change. Deshan and Xinghao came and started the school together and now they are apart. I have read different thing on the matter. Some say Deshan kicked Xinghao out and some say Xinghao left. Mixed in there is Deshan seperated himself from the others after he and Xinghao they had a falling out, etc. I am trying to get a somewhat up to date idea of what to expect when I go to the other schools this weekend. I have read on some posts that Xingying teaches mostly Wushu and from Sha0lin1’s post, as he currently attends there, says different. Posts from 04 or 05 I only find somewhat helpful. Also a Houston search lists the thread “Is Shaolin do for real” with 9k some odd posts.
I have done some training in CT at one of Master Tak Wah Eng’s (NY) sister schools. They started out teaching Ju Jow Pi (Tiger Claw). After a falling out with his uncle, so im told, he agreed not to teach it any more and he started to teach mostly Southern Shaolin and Long Fist. This is why I wanted to hear fom current students.
I thank you for your help but please dont feel like you have to do my research for
me. Good article by the way.
And I have the Shaolin Ulysses DVD. It is well done I think.
Ulysses revisted
We filmed Shaolin Ulysses right after the first split between Xinghao and Deshan. I had friends in both camps. Who knows what happened for real? Back then, it was really difficult for America to support a school that houses more than one Shaolin monk. Such are Shaolin politics - Houston used to be such a hotbed but I hear things have settled down considerably, more or less. Deshan split with Xinghao, and then contracted Xingying, and then split with Xingying and then contracted Yanfeng, and then split with Yanfeng and hired some instructors that were not from Shaolin - wushu instructors I’ve been told. Half of the footage for SU was filmed prior to the split, which is why you see the two together. I went there for the second shooting, which was awkward because the split had already happened. Xingying was in position at Deshan’s place. I knew Xingying at Shaolin when he was much younger, so it took me a while to recognize him. Ironically, he was teaching here in S.F. prior to going over to Deshan, but not overtly as a Shaolin monk. He was conscripted to another school, and they were keeping the Shaolin factor on the down low for some unknown reason. At the time, I had heard there was a Shaolin monk out here (back then there were less than a dozen here in the U.S.; now there’s probably 100+, nearly 50 in the S.F. Bay Area alone). I searched for him, but was unable to locate him.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen Deshan, although he did send some wushu students to Berkeley CMAT that were quite talented. I spoke to Xinghao on the phone last month. I saw Yanfeng at Taiji Legacy either last year or the year before (or perhaps both). I’d have to check my notes to be sure. For a short spell, they were all going to Taiji Legacy, which made that event even more fun. I saw Xingying and Yanfeng at IntMat last year. Like I said, things have appeared peaceful in Houston of late, so I’ve been more focused on our local Shaolin scene. So perhaps you’re right, a fresh Houston thread is in order. It’s going now anyway, so maybe we can inspire a few more Shaolin Houstonites to chime in.
No worries on the research. Shaolin is my specialty. I’m always eager to assist when I can. It’s just that old Chinese saying, ‘catch a fish and feed a man for a day, but teach that man to fish…’ 
Just to clarify a little bit. The story as I know it goes like this…Xing Ying was sent from San Francisco to mediate between Xing Hao and De Shan. However, after arriving, the situation was bad and my Master was unable to do this and also got caught up in the mess so instead of resolving differences they were multiplied by 3. Xing Hao and Xing Ying then decided to go their separate ways and open independent schools. I will not get into the reasons for the split out of respect for the Masters but I will say that my Master had proposed a resolution that I think would have been awesome for all of the Houston students. The resoulution was one school four masters. They would still teach at different locations but we would be one school and students could train with all. Unfortunately, the Masters are still unable to resolve their differences and so we have what we have today. Four competing schools. I wish that they could have resolved their differences because they all are specialists in one style or another and if the students could train with all of them then that would have been awesome. Sadly, though this only hurts the students. To wax cliche, “can’t we all just get along” seems appropriate. But then you have the chinese way of “face” and elder brothers and such which complicates their relationships.
From reading Rages post that he had heard Xing Ying teaches just wushu. I can verify that this is not true. I have learned some contemporary forms but the bulk of my learning has been in traditional. However, there are some of our students in Houston that do choose to specialize in contemporary. Again, if you only want to learn traditional then that is what shifu will stick with. When I started there I used to be one of those staunch traditionalists that think modern has no merit because it is a performance art. But then once I started learning it, I found out that it was quite fun and the athleticism involved only enhanced my traditional as well. Remember too, that modern had its roots in traditional so there is application to some of the techniques.
According to my Master, at Shaolin Temple, the monks start out learning traditional and once they have mastered that curriculum they either specialize in Wushu/Tai Chi or choose to specialize in Hard Qi Gong. At least that is how they did it when my master was there and I suspect that this is still the way things are done.
Thanks for the info. Does Xingying also teach Chi Kung. Im assuming they all do but you never know.
One of the things I have reservations on going to De Shans school is the fact that, I doubt with what has gone on, getting time with the others for clinics and such is not going to happen. I do also think it is counter productive to isolate yourself from you fellow brothers. This would not be allowed at the temple so it should not be allowed here. On the other hand he is from the De generation and I’m not sure if he would have a greater number of traditional teachings than the others. Also I’m not sure how the sparing and practical teaching of the others would compare to De Sahns as he has tought to the police and such. I know they have all trained and had intense sparing.
Thanks for the reply Sha0lin1. I’ll be stoping by all the schools this weekend for schedules. Aslo I am wondering what styles are tought at each. I.E. Bak sil lum, Tong bei chuan, clasic 5 animal, Xiao hong chuan, Mantis, Black Tiger etc. I understand the basic shaolin are the same but the way I understand it, and I could be wrong, it depends on your masters master and so on depending on what they were tought. I did ask De Shan last year and I really didn’t get an answer. He said we teach all kinds. I hope I didnt offend but it should be an acceptable question.
Thanks for the great info.
[QUOTE=rage911;859853]Thanks for the info. Does Xingying also teach Chi Kung. Im assuming they all do but you never know.
One of the things I have reservations on going to De Shans school is the fact that, I doubt with what has gone on, getting time with the others for clinics and such is not going to happen. I do also think it is counter productive to isolate yourself from you fellow brothers. This would not be allowed at the temple so it should not be allowed here. On the other hand he is from the De generation and I’m not sure if he would have a greater number of traditional teachings than the others. Also I’m not sure how the sparing and practical teaching of the others would compare to De Sahns as he has tought to the police and such. I know they have all trained and had intense sparing.
Thanks for the reply Sha0lin1. I’ll be stoping by all the schools this weekend for schedules. Aslo I am wondering what styles are tought at each. I.E. Bak sil lum, Tong bei chuan, clasic 5 animal, Xiao hong chuan, Mantis, Black Tiger etc. I understand the basic shaolin are the same but the way I understand it, and I could be wrong, it depends on your masters master and so on depending on what they were tought. I did ask De Shan last year and I really didn’t get an answer. He said we teach all kinds. I hope I didnt offend but it should be an acceptable question.
Thanks for the great info.[/QUOTE]
Yes Xing Ying teaches Qi Gong too. But he is not as well versed in it as De Shan. As for styles, you start out learning the basic Shaolin Kung Fu. Xiao Hong Quan, Tong Bei Quan, Lo Han Quan, to name a few. The animal forms (Mantis, Tiger, Eagle, etc.) are considered higher forms so you don’t get to those for quite a while. They require some more flexibility and strength than the average forms which you will build up doing the traditional. We also teach all family styles of Tai Chi, Xing Yi, and Bagua.
If you go this weekend you should try a class out. Our adult classes are from 3:00p-4:00p on Saturday and Sunday. Just wear some loose fitting clothes and some athletic shoes.
Yeah, as far as the things not being allowed at the Temple you are right. However, this is the U.S. and the Temple has no authority over them here. It would really be nice if we could have clinics and such though. My master has never had a problem with us doing seminars with the other Monks when they do them. But we usually never go because we are going to learn the material being taught anyway.
As far as what they know, it is all the same but there are variations in some of the forms depending on how their master taught them. The variations are slight though.
Sweet, thanks. I have gear. I used to train at one of Tak Wah Engs schools in CT. I prob. will go in the morning so I can get back to our new house and paint. I might just see you next week.
…did someone dial 911??
Hello all and Rage911,
I got to this post a little late but here is my input if your interested. To answer your question Shi Xing Hao teaches traditional kung fu, long fist (wushu), tai chi, Chin na’ and has started a pretty darn good lion dance team. He also is very well versed in Qi gong but to my knowledge hasn’t started any Qi gong classes. SXH speaks very good english and has LOTS of energy. SXH basically has the school set up by levels. Everyone starts out as level 1 and you test out of levels. Each level has a hand form, weapon form you must learn and a ma bu (horse stance) requirement where you must maintain your horse stance for a specific amount of time. The time varies per level. The school website is in my sig and there is a phone number if you would like to call him with any questions.
As far as the other topics, all the monks are great and they each have something to offer. It really depends on what you are looking for (traditional, long fist, etc). Don’t worry about the “political” aspects of how 4 shaolin schools came to be. Just pick the school you like and train train train. There is plenty of room for each monk to have their own school. I respect all of the monks and most of the older students that been with the monks for a long time have friends in all the schools. In relation to your specific style kung fu training you will find the “songshan” shaolin is different from the Bak Si Lum, Mantis. 5 animal etc. You will find certain moves/stances to be the same but they are different systems. Each monk had different masters but the core basics are the same. Each monk will also teach one form a little different. There really is no black and white explanation for it. Conduct your search and good luck.
lol here i am…sorry i busy with other stuff…man i do miss shaolin though…but i dont have enough time to do everything
let me give you a little background about me first…
i started training in the summer of 2000(with deshan and xing hao)…thanks to songshan..he was one of the factor i stayyed..because at first…i didnt like it..it was boring..it was repetitive…and yeah REPETITIVE…everyday do the samething..i was getting bored…but than i realized…this is kung fu..you have to do it everyday…lol…
and yes i have trained with all 4 monks. all 4 have their own teaching techniques/style. i have been to china to train for one week also.
it been so long since i trained…it kind of hard to say anything…because people do change and adapt to new ways to do things…so whatever i speak of is from my expereince 2000-2005/6 ??
i havnt seen any of the monks for a while either..well i saw de shan during chinese new year…wasnt very talkative toward me…
i saw xing hao when i went to pick up a friend from his school…man xing hao english is awesome! he is a good guy, still remembers me after i dont know how long it been…i only trained with him for maybe 8-9 months? before he left and started his own school…and he stil remembers me..good guy
xing ying english was pretty good already when he came to houston, so i can only imagine how it is now…probably even better now. xing ying is a funny guy, he is really patient. he was one of my favorite teacher honestly. i learned a lot from him. he pays attention to good details, and really teach you what kind of exercises you can do to improve and get better. he does tradtional and wushu.
yan feng/shao feng…he is the youngest one..so he has the mosst energy…
man they all are good teachers…they just have their own style of teaching…i really not sure what you are looking for…de shan school has like 2 wushu coaches there..so i dont know how tradtional it is over there now..before when it was on harwin it was tradtional for sure i know that…
but honestly, i think you should visit all 4 schools. watch a class/ use the free trial class they offer. and than from there. pick which school you like. if you can ask some more direct questions, i might be able to help you answer them better.
ps. i should have written MASTER in front of all of their names..but now i am to lz to go edit it all..i sitll do respect each and every single one of them as my master.
aww…thanks PK!
Good post…one thing to remember and I know this has discouraged a lot of new students. PK_Stylez said a very good point. The training is repetitive as you basically train the same thing every day (warm up, 18 basics, forms, wash rinse and repeat). I know a lot of new students had left because they got discouraged and felt they were not learning “true shaolin”. So don’t be suprised if you see the same things going on at each school.
For some reason when PK_Stylez mention the old shaolin school on harwin when Deshan and Xing Hao were together, it brought back memories of how hot it was up there on the second floor during the summer training. After class, I use to go outside take my shirt off, ring it and squeeze the sweat out of it. It looked like I took a shower with my clothes on… lol. 
fo sho
Thanks all . Great stuff.
I did visit Masters De Shan, Xing Hoa and Xing Ying. I went to the Last 2 first as Master De Shan has a class that ends at 12 and there on break from 12 -2pm. They both are awesome. I asked some question and both seems real hepfull and eager to teach. Master DeShan on the other hand seemed botherd by my stopping by and asking for another schedule. The last one I picked up was this time last year when I came down on my house hunting trip. I spoke with him briefly last year and he seemed fine then. He handed it to me and said brokenly “here you go” in kind of a snide tone this time. He came from the back and had some type of chest pads on. It seemed like he just wanted me to leave so I didnt ask any questions. One of the things I noticed on this schedule was “Grandmaster Shi De Shan” all over this thing. I didnt know Shaolin had “Grandmasters”. This was not on the first one I got a year ago.
I did find Masters Xing Hoa and Xing Ying to be very personable and I think that is very important in learning. Nothing against Master De Shan.
I am looking for traditional, some Qi Gong and sparing. As far as Im concerned the whole point for learing a lot of this stuff is to be able to apply it. After all one of the main reason Kung fu was developed as a fighting art is to defend against an enemy. I know Master Xing Hoa doesnt offer contact sparing at this time and could be a deal breaker for me. Not sure yet.
Thanks to all for all the great info.
[QUOTE=rage911;860092]Thanks all . Great stuff.
I did visit Masters De Shan, Xing Hoa and Xing Ying. I went to the Last 2 first as Master De Shan has a class that ends at 12 and there on break from 12 -2pm. They both are awesome. I asked some question and both seems real hepfull and eager to teach. Master DeShan on the other hand seemed botherd by my stopping by and asking for another schedule. The last one I picked up was this time last year when I came down on my house hunting trip. I spoke with him briefly last year and he seemed fine then. He handed it to me and said brokenly “here you go” in kind of a snide tone this time. He came from the back and had some type of chest pads on. It seemed like he just wanted me to leave so I didnt ask any questions. One of the things I noticed on this schedule was “Grandmaster Shi De Shan” all over this thing. I didnt know Shaolin had “Grandmasters”. This was not on the first one I got a year ago.
I did find Masters Xing Hoa and Xing Ying to be very personable and I think that is very important in learning. Nothing against Master De Shan.
I am looking for traditional, some Qi Gong and sparing. As far as Im concerned the whole point for learing a lot of this stuff is to be able to apply it. After all one of the main reason Kung fu was developed as a fighting art is to defend against an enemy. I know Master Xing Hoa doesnt offer contact sparing at this time and could be a deal breaker for me. Not sure yet.
Thanks to all for all the great info.[/QUOTE]
he calls him self a grand master..because he teaches some other masters from out of city and out of state…lol…
title means nothing though =)
u only mention 3 monks..there is a 4th one..master shi yan feng…good luck finding him..i dont know where is teaches now…=x =x
xing ying offer contact sparring and has great grappling/wrestling/take down techniques…i learned a lot of those from him…
in the same position i’d probably pick xingying. if he offers contact sparring and is good with grappling that would probably seal the deal.
as i’ve heard it, xinghao specializes in teaching modern stuff. (true?) and if he doesnt offer any sort of contact sparring… though probably similar i’d pick xingying.
as for deshan, i’ve heard a lot of stories about him being a kinda rude person often times. but regardless, i’ve seen his traditional forms and they really arent that good. sloppy frankly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=q2qEDHjrOfs
so i’d probably pick xingying. xingying over xinghao probably just based on the actually sparring practice.
i would of course try the two of them out and decide though. but more than likely i’d end up with xingying.
Ya I think thats what Im gonna do. I asked Master Xing Hoa if its traditional or WuShu and he said its traditional with some Wushu. He has seperate Wushu but his Shaolin class is 95% Traditional. He does go into applications and chin na alot he said so there is application, but not sparing. As far as Im concerned Sparing is a must to mimic real life. Your not going to ask an opponent , ok stand like this and throw this punch here.
Both of them speak well. There were alot of people looking at me weird at the chinese center when I went in. Thats where Master Xing Hao is located. Well I guess Ill see some peeps at Master Xing Ying’s. Thanks a bunch.
dont get my wrong by my post..i dont mean it like xing hao doesnt havnt good take down/wreslting/grappling techniques…just i never had the chance to experience or learn from him if he does or not…
xing hao is pretty tradtional him self…i know he seperate tradtional and modern wushu…