Sam Sing Ya Ga seems to be taking root

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
1

Well, i started a Sam Sing Yat Ga group on Facebook, and the numbers of members are growing…slowly but growing…if you’re into uniting CLF, pls become a member of this group.

anyways, i’ve been hearing through the grapevine that there are certain high profile CLF sifu’s who are taking up the Sam Sing Yat Ga cause and have been talking about “you know, we should really try putting all three lineages together.” hmmmmmm i remember when people said this would never work…

yeah…i remember, it all started when i created the video’s called Sam Sing Yat Ga…and people said it wouldn’t take hold…it’s nice to see others begin to believe what i was saying sooo long ago it seems.

2

ripples in the waters and the beating of a butterfly’s wings. It all starts with an idea, which if nourished properly, grows into something great. Keep up the good work, Frank.

3

as a “hybrid” CLF practitioner, I can only say that Frank’s efforts in this regard should not only be supported, but embraced wholeheartedly - the days of factionalism are past, the future lies in unity [wipes tear of sentiment from cheek]

ok, seriously - it really makes no sense at this point for CLF folks to be adversarial - some may still use the differences as a vehicle to carry on personal issues, but beyond that, it’s just silly;

4

well, you know, i’ve been in contact with certain high ranked CLF disciples/teachers in australia under Chan Yong Ya, and politely discussing history. It’s come to light that Chan Family does not have any REAL details about Jeung Hung Sing..that’s ok, because it explains alot.

I knew once the history would get sorted out, all that would be left is to unite the system.

IMHO, a great historical debate is what broke the ice, and now i believe with the exposure Via Youtube of ALL three branches of CLF, we’ve come to see similarities, differences, and things you’d never thought of before.

Although some of these high profiled sifu’s are acting like it was THEIR idea to unite the families material and branches, Sam Sing Yat Ga (for the current generation) is my baby…still in the end, if it unites the family who cares who finishes it…:smiley:

5

The GGM has been the single most dividing figure of CLF. I bet he would hate to know this if he were alive today.

Funny how the most influential figures of CLF also ended up being the most divisive of the art.

6

Hi Frank,

Contrary to your assumption, the Chen Family has the REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public for the sake of the unity of CLF, which is very fragile at the best.

You can ask this “high ranked CLF disciples/teachers in australia under Chan Yong Ya” to look up chapter 44 (entitled “Written Record for Jeung Ah Yim” <>) in Chan Yiu-Chi’s “Re-recorded History of CLF” and see what he says.

My feeling is you are making this up, or they are giving you the official line.

Not that I am against Sam Sing Ya Ga, which is badly needed now, for the sake of CLF and you are doing a good job promoting this cause, but the written family material is there and whether the Chan family chose to open this can of worms is their business.

But I bet someday it will be out in the open, because of the nature of our open society, and we have to deal with it, by then I hope we are strong enough as a group to handle it.

I will not say any more on this subject.

XJ.

7

You can ask this “high ranked CLF disciples/teachers in australia under Chan Yong Ya” to look up chapter 44 (entitled “Written Record for Jeung Ah Yim” <>) in Chan Yiu-Chi’s “Re-recorded History of CLF” and see what he says.

Ummmm…I’m supposed to believe the third genaration information of a family that has NOTHING to do with my lineage? I want to see what CHAN HEUNG said about Jeung Hung Sing…I was also told in those days there were NO written forms, all were done out of memory…so…yeah…nice try joseph.

My feeling is you are making this up, or they are giving you the official line.

You are entitled to have your “FEELINGS”…that still doesn’t mean YOU have anything to say…

But I bet someday it will be out in the open,

you know what will come out to the open…is MY BOOK, which will PROVE to you how Jeung Hung Sing got his “HUNG SING” name…as well as put the DFW version of Ching Cho being Choy Fook out to pasteure.

8

Contrary to your assumption, the Chen Family has the REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public for the sake of the unity of CLF, which is very fragile at the best.

Really…lol…That doesn’t happen to come from the Third Generation Master Chan Yiu Chi would it? IF it is, you can keep it. If I was going to believe anything from chan fam, it would have to be written by Chan Heung himself…and i was told that the only mentions of Jeung Hung Sing was that in “1867 Jeung Yim returns to re-open school”…it does NOT say he went to open a Chan Family school, but it does say RE-OPEN and this is in regards to his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon orignally established in 1851.

How could you ever expect us to believe someone who was born 1 year prior to Jeung Hung Sing passing away in 1893. Chan Yiu Chi (1892-1965) would have had to rely on others to “RECORD” such history about Jeung Hung Sing…and my next question would be…seriously…would Jeung Hung Sing’s distant memory be on the mind of an 18 year old kid? What about a 20 year old kid? the more time goes by the more Chan Yiu Chi had to rely on others memories to record the history.

My feeling is you are making this up, or they are giving you the official line.

If i was making this up, then shouldn’t YOU know if i was or wasn’t? the fact that your feeling is i’m making it up shows that you too aren’t as knowledgeable as you previously thought.

So, do i trust you? do i really have to ask that?

REAL details about Jeung Ah Yim but they choose not to air the dirty linen in public

Really? was any of that dealing with him thinking he was going to be the next inheritor of Chan Heung’s lineage?

I mean, Jeung Hung Sing took down the Chan Family Hung Sing Kwoon’s name and re-placed it with his own Hung Sing Kwoon…is that some of the dirty laundry?

Of course, your records say Jeung Yim returns to re-open school, but no more than that. Somehow, that record fails to mention how Jeung Hung Sing was able to establish his own school in 1851…or are you gonna tell me now that Chan Heung ordered Jeung Hung Sing to open that school? Maybe…just maybe…there is no records of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan fam records around 1851 because Jeung Hung Sing wasn’t a student of Chan Heung any longer and was a student of the Green Grass Monk?

Joseph, you shouldn’t fight it…come to grips that your chan fam archives lacks serious information about Jeung Hung Sing…

Example, i never heard from the Chan Fam that Jeung Hung Sing was married and had two kids…

The more you fight it, the more confident i am because i’ve seen you flip flop joseph. I will never trust your word again, but I will do this…

THANKS JOSEPH, IT WAS BECAUSE OF YOU and your “find proof, evidence, and so forth”…well, i did. And, it’s overwhelming. You inspired me to keep looking, digging, and searching…and brother joe…in regards to the Hung Sing Kwoon…i’ve provided solid answers to many unanswered questions so far.

Another example, i have this theory in regards to the Hung Sing Kwoon’s L shape Hoi Jong and it’s connection to the Heaven Earht and Man Society. But i discuss that in my book.

Again, the only thanks you get from me (revel or not) is for inspiring me to keep looking no matter how many haters try to tell you you will never find anything. THANK YOU BROTHER JOE!!!

9

drake,

I feel you. But, most people in southern gung fu don’t realize just how much the Green Grass Monk, and the other four ancestors of the Hung Mun have a part to play in what they do.

Have you ever seen the hand shape for TURTLE? That one, the Hang Loose sign (reps DRAGON), Tiger Claw, Crane Beak, and the “Twin Dragons going for the Pearls” hand shapes are in actuality secret hand signals identifying each one of the 5 Hung Mun Ancestors.

In my research, i’ve even discovered what i believe to be the true reason the Lau Bun lineage uses a solid fist Chop Choy over that of a panther fist’d one. Knowing that Jeung Hung Sing, maybe yuen hai, Lau Bun, Jew Leong, were members of the Hung Society, it now makes complete sense. Hung Society call signals are all over Prof. Lau Bun’s gung fu. Which leads me to the solid fist’d chop choy…in the Triad society, the closed solid fist is a representation or secret call signal for “UNITY”…we weren’t raised around other CLF, and had no other affiliations or contact with other CLF schools. so when i looked inside the hung society, much of Prof. Lau Bun’s Hung Sing Kuen made much more sense to me.

10

Hi Frank,

You are so one-sided in your argument it is hard not to reply.

If you only going to believe something from the Chan family if Chan Heung himself writes it, then have you seen anything written by Jeung Ah Yim himself? Did he ever mention the GGM?

How can you dig deeper at the history of CLF without looking at what the Chan family archive has in store? At least you will have something to compare.

Have you been to Jeung Ah Yim’s village? Have you met any of his descendants if he was married and had two kids? Have you seen his grave? Have you been to Guangzhou or Kong-Moon or King Mui and check their records compare to Futsan?

You have got a lifetime’s work ahead of you if you are really serious about the history of CLF; otherwise your book is not worth a cent.

CLF is now officially recognized as an intangible culture heritage of China, thanks to Chen Zhongjie and the Chen clan, so may be you can get some funding to do your research, otherwise all these claims you made are no more than your theories without any proof.

You don’t have to trust me, but at least what I said you could look it up. Can we do the same from what you’ve told us? The answer is a resounding no!

XJ

11

PS:

If you can get hold of this Chapter 44 then you can also read Chan Yiu-Chi’s explanation why there is no picture of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Schools.

But with your status, Frank, there is a zero chance that you will ever get anywhere near the Chan family archive, so you can dig as much as you like in the Hung Mun or whatever records and you won’t find anything worthwhile as far as the intimate and personal history of CLF is concerned.

But I know, it won’t stop you and you don’t need the Chan family records, so do carry on making a fool of yourself!:smiley:

XJ

12

joseph,

see you keep lying…you said that is all you have to say…yet here you are stirring up more trouble…

see. i was already told about the Chan Heung painting…and how it was based of of chan yiu chi and Chan koon pak…

How can you dig deeper at the history of CLF without looking at what the Chan family archive has in store? At least you will have something to compare.

I’m not DIGGING at the history of CLF…i’m digging at the history of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon founded by Jeung Hung Sing. See, your chan family records DO NOT mention that jeung hung sing established his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1851, but it DOES say that he RETURNED to RE-OPEN his school in 1867…the infamous 16 year gap won’t go away…

JOSEPH…

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH…
YOU CHAN FAMILY RECORDS HAVE NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUT SAN HUNG SING…WHY?

well, let me list the issues again…

  • who used the HUNG SING name first?
    Chan folk claim they did, but failed to mention although they sound the same, they were completely different in actual translation.

Chan Fam pushes a painting of Chan Heung but fails to tell people it’s not the actual person, but a theory of what he may look like based on his son and grand son.

Chan fam claims Chan Heung sent Jeung Hung Sing to fut san in 1867…but fail to mention that he already established his own school in fut san in 1851.

Chan Fam first claims there is NO evidence of the records that Ching Cho ever existed, then turn around and say OOPS we over looked it. This is funny cause joseph, you too flip flopped on the Green Grass Monk issue yourself. and you’re still telling me the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon needs to listen to the Chan Fam about OUR history??? funny!!!

Have you been to Jeung Ah Yim’s village? Have you met any of his descendants if he was married and had two kids?

Nah, but DFW has, and tells me that they have nothing about they ancestor. But, Jeung Hung Sing had many students who would tell the history correctly…people like Professor Lau Bun have passed down the history to us about his “SIGUNG” who was Jeung Hung Sing. Chan Ngau Sing’s true blood line still exists, and the truth is still passed down within the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Just because Chan Yiu Chi finally got to writing down the history, doesn’t mean he got it right. remember, your own chan family is TORN on whether the fact that the green grass monk was real or a myth created by the Hung Sing people.

You don’t have to trust me, but at least what I said you could look it up. Can we do the same from what you’ve told us? The answer is a resounding no!

Once my book comes out, people will be able to go to the bibliography and find out the information that i have for themselves. Information, very detailed information about the Green Grass Monk will readily be available for you.

Like is said joseph…when your chan family said the green grass monk didn’t exist in THEIR archives, which they STILL CLAIM TILL THIS DAY…I have…

  1. The Chinese Characters for Ching Cho’s Shaolin Temple name…
  2. The 4 names of the Green Grass Monk
  3. The flags used by the Green Grass Monk’s Triad Lodge
  4. The name of Ching Cho’s lodge…as well as the other 4 Monk’s lodges as well
  5. I can even tell you HOW the Green Grass Monk got his name.
  6. I can answer with evidence to Jeung Yim’s HUNG SING and its connection to
    the Hung Mun.
  7. I got more than ONE artistic depiction of the Green Grass Monk.
  8. I know which of the 5 Animals represents the Green Grass Monk.
  9. Can tell you the body posture that represents the Green Grass Monk.
  10. Can tell you that the Green Grass Monk was one of the most feared agitators
    of the Qing Empire, and had one of the largest and most powerful lodges in
    ALL of southern China.
  11. I can tell you with great confidence why Jeung Hung Sing chose to change his
    name from Hung Victory to Glorious Victory.

come on now joseph…joseph…i’ve seen YOU flip flop, I’ve seen DFW Flip Flip, THAT mixed with the fact that it wasn’t the first, or second generation but the third generation master Chan Yiu Chi is the one who wrote or RE wrote OUR history is enough for me to NOT TRUST family archives that are NOT directly related to my lineage!!!

13

Ah UNITY, all for one and one for all, right? Wait wrong story. The idea of unity is nice but it doesn’t work in politics and throughout the world, why would anyone think it will really work with CLF? The idea is nice but then again the idea of a utopian society is also nice but will never happen outside of some hippy farm in the middle of nowhere.

14

Look what happened to Thomas Moore…

15

if you’re gonna point fingers, point them at our brother[SIZE=“4”] JOSEPH[/SIZE]…

All i did was mention SSYG…and JOSEPH’S hating arse always follows me like a puppy dog nipping at my heels…

16

The CONCEPT of Sam Sing Yat Ga is one that will NOT take place in this generations, but there are those who COMPLETELY support the movement, and will pass that on to the NEXT generations of CLF folks.

I don’t care if it happens in MY lifetime, but as long is it does…

people like joseph is hell bent on debunking Fut San History…because the more our history is known, the more people realize just how important Jeung Hung Sing was in the CLF lineage.

and of course Lance would always have to come in with his MESS, never to say anything good…always the skeptic. :smiley:

17

I’m just keeping it real and calling it like I see it. Everyone has his or her own adgenda to push for good or bad. The main thing that will prevent “unity” in CLF, politics or whatever is egos and the mine is bigger than yours mentality. Its human nature afterall and been going on since the beginning of time.

18

i’m just keeping it real

what are you keeping real?

Everyone has his or her own adgenda to push for good or bad.

YEAH, I GOT GOOD INTENTIONS…ACTUAL HUNG SING PEOPLE FEEL WHAT I’M DOING IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR OUR BRANCH.

19

Re:

Hey Frank, how’s it going.

It’s too bad the diversity of Choy Lee Fut can’t be truly celebrated and respected, because in the end that’s truly what it is a very diverse system of martial skills.

One banner sort of speaking (CHOY LEE FUT) with different entities like Buk Sing, Hung Sing and Chan Family. Each having their own pivotal role in the promotion of that diverse nature of skills that should be respected as their own separate entity.

In my opinion each entity of Choy Lee Fut is great, and should be celebrated as much, liken unto Tai Chi Chuan, Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun, Fu, Guang Ping, Li, all under the banner of Tai Chi Chuan yet in still different flavors based upon the knowledge and experience of those that formulated them, but in the end when its all said and done it’s recognized only as Tai Chi Chuan.

So my brother I said all that to say this, when Si Gung gave Sifu that newspaper clipping stating those Hung Sing Studios being unearthed after all those years, and under the direction of Jeung Hung Sing Futsan Goon, they boasted of over 10,000 members, I can say with pretty certainty, Hung Sing himself passed his background on to someone in order for us to receive it today, and like the saying goes, “Just Because We Didn’t Know Something, Does Not Mean It Isn’t True or Does Not Exist”, the doors of Futsan and Hung Mun are open like never before go ahead exhaust it, take full advantage of it, that’s your Futsan Hung Sing history.

Troy

20

What is “real” is that people will use the guise of “unity” for their own purpose and to push whatever adgenda they want (CLF, politics, whatever). The concept is nice but true intentions generally lie beneath the surface.