Think Shaolin still has real monks, are buddhist so worldly? If your ready to stop fantasizing, read this article on msnbc!http://www.msnbc.com/news/430641.asp?cp1=1
2 threads same topic?
Long live Shaolin!!!
Yes, long live Shaolin!, but which one?
“Shaolin” is just a symbol. Symbols STAND for something. If it means NOTHING to you, you must make up your own MA and call it “kung fu” to avoid looking silly.
The most ridiculous thing is to assume that the “Shaolin” destroyed in 1928 was “real”… But then again the West was in bed with the Chings against the Chinese anyway… So we have always funded BS in the East and now who’s surprised about what???
this time I am very serious!!!
This is Heming from Shaolin Temple,
I met Brook Larmer—the author of the linked article on the latest Newsweek last week in Hong Kong. And as he required, I also arranged a meeting for him with my master Shi Heng Jun when master was doing a seminar for Hong Kong Sci. & Tech. University. He is a very nice person and the 2nd day he even invited me for lunch and he asked many questions about Shaolin Temple and my masters… what I can’t understand is…why the media only trying to dig out the dark side of a thing or a person to catch the attention of public? 
Newspaper will only report the news of a man bite a dog but not a dog bite a man…
that’s what you guys waiting to read on such a big magazine?
Buddha bring peace back to Shaolin Temple…
I also wish Mr. Larmer will read this message I post here, and also, welcome to visit Shaolin Temple again, let me show you the bright side, if you interested, dear friend!
Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple’s Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
Fax: +1(212)98143
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://www.topcities.com/Arts/heming/index.htm
http://shaolintemple.yeah.net
oh, cool, I didn’t notice that my name" Zhu Heming" was also mentioned in the article…since when I became a salesman and dear Mr.Larmer, didn’t you ever asked one of those half dozen foreign disciples that if I lured them to come or what?
and I can’t remember that if you ever promised me that you will not publish my name and my master’s name on your Newsweek…
Email me back please and I need explaination…my friend…also I wish to correct several mistakes made in your article personally…you made me so sad when I am reading your article 
Buddha bless Shaolin!
Heming from Shaolin Temple
SHAOLIN LIVES, BUT NOT AT SONGSHAN!
self-thinking follower…
Shaolin lives, only from Songshan!!!
who are you and why you love to see Shaolin’s reputation dying fast? I don’t understand what is all your words for…
will you please explain?
Heming the defender
I am a practitioner of Shaolin fighting methods unblemished by government sport requirements or restrictions. Unconcerned with monetary gain for rebuilding temples to con dreaming fools like you. Your not native to China are you? Yet like all lackeys you defend something for your “MASTERS”. Afro-americans, in the past, had a name for those who did that for their “MASTERS”, it was an “UNCLE TOM”. Now in China we have “UNCLE HEMING”. Heming, why dont you go back to your country and read those “defender” comic books. Songshan is only a historical site! and Heming, YOUR NOT A MONK!, YOUR NOT A MONK, YOUR NOT A MONK! and yes you have stated this, now listen to your own words, YOU ARE NOT A MONK!
wait dear self-thinking follower,
guess you still don’t know who I am…
firstly, let me tell you that my dad is a Chinese, and my mum is also Chinese, and I was born in China, so do you still think I am not a Chinese?
if I want to make money, I will go to do business but not stay in songshan mountain and train myself in mud…what do you think?
and you also saying that Shaolin kung fu is blemished by government sport requirements or restrictions, do you really believe that?
do you think anybody can really change Shaolin kung fu as they want? I really wish that you can come to visit us and I do wish to let my master Shi Heng Jun to show you the real stuff but not those you watched from movies…or so called Chinese wushu show.
Yes, I am not a monk and I will never be a MONK, why should I discard my family away?
what I am doing in Shaolin Temple is to helping masters to rebuild the fame of Shaolin and also do my little effort to promote the treasure of we Chinese to the world…thanks for talking with me, before you make another comment, please learn more about Shaolin first, dear friend…
I also recommend you to visit Dr. Richards Site at: http://www.russbo.com
Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple’s Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
Fax: +1(212)98143
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: heming@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://www.topcities.com/Arts/heming/index.htm
http://shaolintemple.yeah.net
Heming, you misguided soul, I will answer your questions in order.
Question #1 - I still have my doubts, but where in China did you grow up?
Question #2 - Shaolin Marketing is now very lucrative, also Shaolin fantasy and daydreaming are at their peak! Especially with the travel packages you guys offer!
Question #3 - DEFINATELY SO!
Question #4 - This has been done for ages, do you not believe in 18 Lohan and 5 animal fists of shaolin folklore? Were these not changes to shaolin kung fu? Perhaps you posted the wrong question, since shaolin even according to your own words in other threads has been open to oustside developments. Am I right? Did I misinterpret why western and even Korean and Japanese methods are now practiced at Shaolin?
Question #5 - Been there twenty years ago, as a TOURIST!, they were still reconstructing and there was’nt much to see.
Of course perhaps these monks were hidden, secretly practicing Taekwon-Do or reinventing the wheel. Now of course you have hundreds of pseudo monks, lay followers and “Folk masters” all suspiciously dressed in monk garb, what gives? Trying to fool someone? Lets not even mention the circus like touring groups, now only led by an “official monk” but consisting of Lay and folk masters doing their best to look like real monks and fool who? We dont have to travel to Songshan to see this, do we?
Please give your master Shi Heng Jun’s non- buddhist name and background, there are a lot of mainland chinese who really do have gung fu and unfortunately have been recruited to endorse this farce. Some are even dreaming of the fame.
Why not build your family fame and fortune instead of that of the governments shaolin tourist attraction? SHAOLIN IS ALREADY FAMOUS, you guys are making it infamous! ;( Many people are only familiar with the legends but after seeing you guys, they laugh and say shaolin is OVERATED!, wake up Heming, wake up!
Once again Heming, WAKE UP!
Oh, Heming I forgot to correct your assumption on me watching movies, I dont take any movies or documentaries for fact.
I do note when documentaries made by the chinese government contradict their current claims. Also I have seen the real shaolin, it exsists in the MANY TREASURES, of chinese gung fu preserved all over the world and it is far ahead of the shaolin wushu propagated at Songshan, IMHO!
Are there any practioners of shaolin derived Kung Fu out there?
Are you willing to have, what you do, called non-shaolin, by new squatters at Songshan? Its going to happen!
“The new generation of Shaolin are like the Borg of Star trek- they assimilate” You know what happens if you dont throw in with them, right? They force you into it “resistance is futile”
Heming’s art is Shaolin because he studies at the Temple. MANY MA’s are called “Shaolin” for none other than a mere selling point. Myriad styles have roots at the Temple, but pretty much everyone knows that the term “Shaolin” is applied to alot of faceless arts for no other reason than to call forth a fantasy image of the Temple where Heming studies. Why? Well, to attract people that don’t know any better.
All you Shaolin-Do, Shaolin Kempo, Shaolin Kung Fu, Shaolin 5 Animals, Shaolin Chuan Fa, American Shaolin Kempo Karate, Shaolin this, Shaolin that, Shaolin whathaveyou people lay off Heming. If HE has no right to the name, who are YOU???
IF your teacher is legit, you are a freakin’ embarrassment…
The Shaolin Warriors of the past were NEVER good Buddhists.
Yo Heming,
My sifu (Jeff Hughes), my sigung (Ray Fogg), Steve Cotrell, Lily Lau, and many others will be over at Shaolin temple in about a month. I hope you can check them out, and let me know what you think of them and their performance.
Dear Lost-Disciple,
Please ask them to gimme a call when they are here…they can reach me by phone number
0136-1266-8533 or 2749172 from Shaolin Temple, and I would like to show them around…wish them have a nice experience here, my friend.
Heming with regards
There is a phone at the temple? How odd.
MoQ, saying you are from shaolin, or saying that your kung fu comes from shaolin is definately okay, but saying that your kungfu is the REAL or UNCHANGED shaolin is a load of BS. Also not being a monk and dressing in monk garb is misleading and misrepresenting, I dont exclude the idiots here in the US that buy these outfits and shave their heads. You have posted before on my thread, did’nt you see that my problem is not where the kung fu comes from, its people trying to propagate a farce, fantasy. I know they’re not monks! Now before you comment on those here, remember that my problem is with the RECENT trend started at songshan.
Also, I dont think any of my teachers are embarrassed at me. Especially since they encouraged me to be myself and to express my feelings honestly. You cant fault one for that. I dont fault Heming for not answering my questions or for being asleep, we all have our beliefs but here we can question each other about them, get it?
As for shaolin this and Shaolin that, I say your right but I also see sytems like: Hung Gar, Hung Fut, Fut Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Wu Mei, Lei Gar, Lau Gar, Choy Gar, Mok Gar, Lung Ying, Go Tzu, Pei Ho,Ying Jow, Fu Jow, Lan Shou, Hung Chuan, Lo Han, Pan Gar, Jook Lam, Lok Hop, Mei Hua,Pao Chui, and many others, derived from shaolin and standing on their own merits. Without the need to dress in monk attire or have a special address.
MoQ, the Shaolin of Songshan kung fu today is shaolin but the curriculum was only recently put together from preserved forms that NON MONKS PRACTICED!, Now called, “FOLK MASTERS”. There is no such thing as an unbroken lineage of monks or a traditional standard system, preserved by monks. Is my belief clear now?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MoQ:
Heming’s art is Shaolin because he studies at the Temple.
Actually, I believe his school is near the temple. According to the article, “At a smaller school halfway up the mountain above Shaolin, Shi Hengjun…”
I don’t think that makes it any less legitimate, but from everything I’ve read, the actual temple is more of a tourist attraction today than a martial arts training center.
MANY MA’s are called “Shaolin” for none other than a mere selling point.
I think there is an important distinction that is being lost here. There is nothing wrong with using a term for marketing reasons, IMO, unless that term is used deceptively.
It would be deceptive to teach ju jitsu and call it “Shaolin”. Simlarly, it would be deceptive to promise students the opportunity to live/study in the Shaolin Temple when in fact they would not be training in the temple.
But I don’t really see a lot of deception going on here.
I prefer names like tai chi, praying mantis, etc., to describe the content of what is taught. But the reality is that content must be marketed in terms that prospective students understand.
Many CMA schools call themselves “kung fu” schools purely for marketing reasons. We all know that “kung fu” means mastery of time and effort, and not CMA. But since the term has improperly become synonymous with CMA, schools must market themselves as “kung fu” schools so that prospective students understand what kind of school it is.
I see the same thing with regards to “Shaolin”. While it is really more of a place than a style, it has become synonymous with certain CMA styles. Styles that teach animal forms that originated or were refined by the temple are being completely honest, IMO, by calling themselves “Shaolin XXXXX” because they are trying to convey their content in terms that prospective students can understand.
If HE has no right to the name, who are YOU???
I don’t think that anyone here is saying that Heming has no right to the name. He clearly does, in my view.
I just don’t agree with the notion that only Heming has the right to the name, and any other style that uses the name is somehow “faceless” or “illegitimate”.
The Shaolin Temple is being used for commercial reasons all over the world, including in China. Heming and his master are clearly using the Shaolin Temple for commercial reasons.
And there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, it is the best way, IMO, to preserve the art, the spirit of the art, and the temple with which the art is associated.
I expect that Heming’s school is one of the finest martial arts schools in the world, and that the dedication they require/demand is way beyond what you find in Western schools. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make money so that they can buy modern toilets, etc.
But there is also nothing wrong with Western schools wanting to attract students, and using terms like “kung fu” and “Shaolin” to describe their content.
quote: “There is a phone at the temple? How odd.”
There seems to be this peculiar desire among people that to be “legitimate” shaolin, one must also discard the modern and live the life of 300 years ago: no technology, no convenience, no money, toiling in fields, living as an anachronism. To do this would bring LESS legitamacy in my eyes, much like a renaissance performer or civil war renactor aren’t “real”, merely imitators of the past.
When I see Shaolin monks with cell phones, cars, marketing themselves, I think instead “good for them”. I would be very disappointed if adapting to modern ways was forbidden. There is nothing in Chan Buddhism that says you cant wear stylish sunglasses. Come on guys, these are not the Amish here. Quit mysticizing them and trying to hold them aloft as something they aren’t.
Granted, the lineage and authenticity of the kung fu itself is arguable at times, but there is also not just a single school or style there, but dozens. I think it would be hasty to judge all of the kung fu of the entire region on the examples of a few travelling stage performers.