Chain punches?:eek: Let’s do the math, a person can close 20 feet in one second. A punch has an effective range of about 2 feet or so. So even if the guy is charging in from 20 feet out you have to set, start punching and hope one will stop him before you’re smothered in that fraction of a second before you become initimate with him.
Friday - My point is, what kind of a takedown. There’s so many kinds, asking for a a technique to defend against them is like asking for a technique to defend against being struck. And moreover, presumably you’re getting exposure to some aspects of this from your kungfu style.
Old Jong - I disagree. Many kungfu styles emphasize closing the distance aggressively to break the opponent’s structure and balance. Certainly this is true of the internals, baji and pigua, and shuia chiao. Maybe not of most externals? The wing chun and, to a somewhat lesser extent, tanglang I’ve seen have been boxing-oriented.
Really?? Then why are there so many people walking around with single or multiple herniated disks??
Dunno. Why are there thousands of wrestlers, boxers and football players who’s spines are fine?
Bodies are quirky things. Whatcha gonna do?
Braden,
I’m mainly interested in defense against the double leg, single leg BJJ takedown, plus would also be interested in takedowns that wrestlers use plus Shuai chiao. but i’m interested only in kung fu defenses not BJJ/wrestling etc. i’m aware of the sprawl and i am learning that too.
What’s your kungfu style?
In my class the main defense against some one trying to shoot under and take the legs is:
Assuming your in a front stance
As the guy comes under to take your legs…your lead leg moves back out of range.
Your lead hand makes contact with the guys head (hopfully from above coming down but depends on positioning) and strikes…the blow turns into a push and youforce the guys head down to the ground (and try to tuck it under)
your second hand comes round and grabs your attacker by the groin. and pulls
This should lead (if you pushed the head down right) to the guy rolling forwards (which you can controle with both your hands).
The other main counter is much less interesting and ends in a gulliotine.
Originally posted by Royal Dragon
[B]“Its certainly hard to actualy ‘rupture’ the spine”
Reply]
Really?? Then why are there so many people walking around with single or multiple herniated disks?? [/B]
By jumping out of trees 2 stories high! 
Originally posted by Liokault
[B]In my class the main defense against some one trying to shoot under and take the legs is:
Assuming your in a front stance
As the guy comes under to take your legs…your lead leg moves back out of range.
Your lead hand makes contact with the guys head (hopfully from above coming down but depends on positioning) and strikes…the blow turns into a push and youforce the guys head down to the ground
The other main counter is much less interesting and ends in a gulliotine. [/B]
both are integral to your “one trick pony”…
Yeah but from there i got other choices than “go to ground…get arm bar”
Originally posted by Liokault
Yeah but from there i got other choices than “go to ground…get arm bar”
and a grappler doesn’t? you should seriously find one to workout with. good wrestlers make excellent use of pressure points. then there is always GnP and other limbs to manipulate. elbows and knees, etc…
You are still missing my point.
I am not saying that you HAVE to go to the ground.
Nor am i saying that you do not train any stand up.
But i am questioning what BJJ has to offer to stand up? And i am if your training will compel you to go to the ground even if its not a good idea because thats what you train for. And to quote so many MMA guys on this forum “train like you fight”.
“Dunno. Why are there thousands of wrestlers, boxers and football players who’s spines are fine?”
reply]
Maybe, but here are alot of EX footbal players with herniated disks. Boxers are not thrown hard on th eground, and wreastlers have mats to make their landings all soft and “cusshy like.”
Football players who have no mats to fall on (they are padded though), especiually the colledge ones who are not as athletically gifted as the pros DO end up with disk problems, so to power lifters and gymnasts.
And Yes Seven star, guy who think they are stuntmen and jump out of trees too
Originally posted by Liokault
[B]You are still missing my point.
I am not saying that you HAVE to go to the ground.
Nor am i saying that you do not train any stand up.
But i am questioning what BJJ has to offer to stand up? And i am if your training will compel you to go to the ground even if its not a good idea because thats what you train for. And to quote so many MMA guys on this forum “train like you fight”. [/B]
what is has to offer for standup is takedowns. clinch work and takedowns. What does taiji offer on the ground?
“What does taiji offer on the ground?”
Uh…rooting?
I think Friday is looking for anti takedowns that work, so he can deal with the grappel heads without having to become one himself.
I sugjest you start really looking at your forms. Good movement is in there. You just have to figure it out.
Take downs require openings just like anything else. Don’t give them that to begin with. Try a stick and move stratigy. Attack their limbs, redirect their center, follow.
What has worked for me in the past, as they charge in, step back and presss their face into the ground real hard, grind it in there a bit, then kneel on their neck to hold them there. Us alot of weight so they know you really have them.
If they figure out what your doing and back off before you can get them, turn it into a face pounding fest wile they are still in the emptyness of indecision. Your hands will be right there, and so is thier face at that point, take advantage of it.
What has worked for me in the past, as they charge in,
Charge in?! Who are you sparring–the local drunk?
I can think of several powerlifters, gymnasts and wrestlers, etc, with no permanent problems. I can think of several with nagging injuries. Only one I know with a spine problem.
Bottom line–let’s talk in probabilities. You ain’t snapping somebody’s spine with a takedown defense, 99.999999999999% of the time. I therefore don’t like saying it’s a possibility. I mean, I COULD get vaporized by a nuclear weapon. It’s possible, right?
Originally posted by jon
[B]
chingei
“oh, of course it will.”
- Pardon me, i keep forgetting all the experts here who are only too happy to inform me of what will and wont work.
–Sorry I didn’t respond sooner; I was washing my hair this morning and, wouldn’t ya know it, my neck snapped! Took me all day to get it back on right.
Now why not try and post how you would go about adapting your unbeatble no nonsence grappling to a street fight against two armed attackers and i can sit here and pick faults in your logic?
–I’m sure your doctor could answer this question a bit better but—when did the voices in your head inform you that I had ever mentioned such a thing?
Honestly i actualy LIKE when people disagree but PLEASE at least give me the respect of actualy stating WHY you disagree. At least Merry had the guts to lay his ideas on the line up for public critisim.
–“Guts”? is it an act of courage to elaborate on patently ridiculous statements? Merry is simply a much more thoughtful interlocutor than I.
Can your spine handle the pressure of being compressed into the floor by a skilled practioner who is dropping there entire bodywieght on you?
–yes.
Obviously you must be doing something im not becouse my spine is only bone. Titatinium alloy i hear is not comming in till next season. [/B]
this is just the type of statement that screams “no practical experience whatsoever”
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]I am not advocating to learn wrestling,
I will. Learn Wrestling.
[/B]
well said.
Originally posted by Royal Dragon
[B]
What has worked for me in the past, as they charge in, step back and presss their face into the ground real hard, grind it in there a bit, then kneel on their neck to hold them there. Us alot of weight so they know you really have them.
[/B]
no offense, but it sounds like you had some real chumps on your hands.
“Let’s do the math, a person can close 20 feet in one second.”
Right on the money,but why get “Set”?
That takes too long.
Its simple physics,no chi bouncing,no tremor power.
Its all Relativity, if you train in high level kung-fu
it has all of the tools,notice I said “High level”
The high level systems have the tools to deal with
the ground fighters,from what I see on this forum few
have figured it out,be a mirror to your opponet,standing up or on the ground.
you want theorys?
The tools should be in you system,if not find another one.
I’ve been lucky that my training saved me against a well trained ground fighter.
Look at a bullfighter,as this may seem to be a simple solution
to a complex situation,once the distance is covered by the
groundfighter is the CMA guy going to “get set”,in my house the answer is NO!
The bottom line to me is that I need to be aware of the sitution
before it comes down,this may not answer your question
but I don’t feel the need to explain how I delt with the groundfighter.
I will tell you once again without going into what I did that it was
Relative to my attacker.
“A young reporter once asked Einstein(after he left Germany and arrived in NYC) what the eighth wonder of the world is,he replyed,compound interest”