I have a book with a complete pic by pic of Siu Lim Tao and the pigeon toed thing is kind of weird. Is that the recommended stance to practice it, or is there another way?
It dosen’t bother me really I’m just curious.
Thanks for any insight.
Except for the TWC folks, most wing chun families use some version of what you are calling a “pigeon toed stance”-the yee gee kim yeung ma. It is not easy to learn but is a very important stance for building the fiundations of wing chun. It can be easily done “wrong”. Lots of details in the alignments.
What book are you seeing this in? It may help me to Identify the situation better.
Toes or knees more important
Hello,
I would tend to agree with Yuanfen on this one, if you can believe that 
Improper alignment of the knees can lead to many problems, particularily later in life. Back problems are only one possibility.
In consideration of the difference with TWC, others more knowledgable can correct me on this. The above alignment and physical problems are a main reason for the difference.
Another thing to consider is that you can find several pictures of Yip Man performing with his feet not in a pigeon toed stance. Of course, this could just be a result of his being so good as to have been able to do things technically wrong but still succede.
IMHO, FWIW, the adduction of the knees is far more important than the angle of the feet, ie pigeon toed. The knees should sink move slightly forward and towards one another. This forms one of the triangles for WC stance structure. While some degree of the toes pointing in, or pigeon toed, can be helpful the knees are the more important aspect, again IMHO.
Peace,
Dave
I was taught that the shoulder-width-apart pigeon-toed stance is a marvelous self-correcting training tool for developing proper rooting. After good rooting is ingrained, you can work out of the “neutral” stance. You never fight in a pigeon-toed anything, its just for training purposes.
I always thought that the knees should point in the direction of the toes otherwise you could pull a tendon or ligament very easily.
So if you are standing in a stance with feet parallel, and you are bending your knees and pulling them together, doesn’t that cause problems for the knees and ankles since your feet are pointing in one direction and your knees are pointing in another?
Head & Shoulders, Knees and Toes
Eyes and ears and mouth and nose!
Anyone know the Hokey Pokie?
very astute
Hi Churn-ging,
An astute observation. A lot could depend on the degree of angle. However, the key again is in the adduction which does not necessarily mean that the knees are pointing towards one another.
Peace,
Dave
Grabbed Goat
That is why it is sometimes called the “Grabbed Goat” stance. This indicates that the knees should be pointed in as if you were grabbing the head of a goat in between your knees.
Matrix
just to stir the pot.
we don’t have the knees pulling together(i think goat gripping is taken to literally, me thinks this is what it looks like not how it is perfomed), all movement is foward.(the waist is foward & i’ve never personally been told to put any emphasis on the knees, except to keep them bent)
if you have adduction of the knees then you will never realise full speed & power as some of your force is going sideways.
i look at is the same way as the arm in tan, fook etc any movement sideways & at some piont you will have to use strength to correct yourself.
vts
Perhaps the use of the name Goat sheering stance is misleading. Perhaps a better name would be Bat jee ma. referring to resembling the chinese character 8, /. however an even better choice would be Pakua ma. in other words eight directions stance. the ability to move in eight directions easily may make one more readily mobile.
Efficiency is the key.
In this stance, when you are square to your oponent, you are pidgeon toed, however as your opponent moves to one side or the other, if you chase his centerline, one only needs to turn one foot and you are already facing the centerline once again. This may not be as efficient as say the parallel foot alignment where you may need to move 2 feet at a time.
Hope this helps!!!
Lets assume that “goat gripping” stance is accurate. I’ve never seen a goat that is only one fist distance in width! Of course if you wanted to crush it then thats a different story.
wcfish
hows the boyz in sydney dude.
you been training much yourself?
vts