hmm
Well, I know very little when you look at the full picture.. 
But that was by choice.
Iāll try to be general in my termsā¦
When I first started at that time we concentrated on basic stances, hands, feet, footwork and the 14 ways
hmm
Yes mike is a great teacher, although he does things a little different and tends to go through phases of what he wants to work on as a group.
Well, I know very little when you look at the full picture.. But that was by choice.
Iāll try to be general in my termsā¦
When I first started at that time we concentrated on basic stances, hands, feet, footwork and the 14 ways. Very little two man training, some basic stationary drills. Forms were part of the equation, but worked on individually.
Then a lot of people were weeded out because of the intensity involved and it boiled down to some guys that already had a foundation so the training went along the lines of actual combat skills, footwork, two man drills, mitts, and sparring were the main focus. Form training became group activities and drills were pulled out of the forms. So within a lot of this training we were doingā¦ say the 12 key words etc. Even though we werenāt told āokay the concept of tag or lean is being used hereā we were doing it. On down the line. I could give examples for every little thing but I donāt want to be here all night writing. Basically we trained the tactics and we understood how to use them, but werenāt told, āhey this is one of the 12 soft etcāā¦ Make senseā¦ ?
Even more were weeded out because of the iron arm and conditioning involved with two man drills and actual combat intensity. Then it came down to sensitivity and sticky energy was being focused apon more with the two man fighting and trainingā¦ so more of the concepts were being shown on an advanced level but still not all the terms were usedā¦ We were just doing them.
Now it has gotten back to a lot of basic building because he has a lot of new students so the older guys are helping the new students and kind of working on more foundational issues. Giving them all of the concepts ect.
I myself concentrate on the fighting and two man myself here in AZ. Because that is what I like to do, footwork and two man is where itās at for me. Within that you get the aggressive nature of mantis, sensitivity, conditioning etc. Without breaking things down too much. But I also have started to pick up the terms used and Iām giving my guys a list of those concepts and they study those on there own. When weāre training Iāll tell them āokay this is one of the 12 key words and this is how itās appliedāā¦ So they know what they are doing and why instead of just doing it.
I donāt know if I answered your question or not, but I was always one of those guys that could look at what you were doing and understand it and do it fairly easily. A natural so to speak, so I understand there are only so many ways to enter, so many lines of attack etc. without someone breaking it down for me, I could already see that, understand it and do it. The feeling and sensitivity gained from doing two man stuff gave me a lot of these skills, the ability to feel when to slip, shoot, re direct, feeding and feeling of energy etc. Certain concepts that I pick up now I realize I was already doing but just didnāt have the terminology to go with it. So when I look back at what I was training and still training for that matter and compare that to the definitions of the 12 key words etc I see I was already doing these things. Itās just a puzzle that Iām still putting together in technical terms.
Among my classmates and my students, the ones that most liked talking had the least ability. One could see that the talking interfered with their skill development, which is why my teacher made his comment. The other comment he would make was, āempty glasses make the most noiseā.
N.
>>> Basically we trained the tactics and we understood how to use them,
>>> but werenāt told, āhey this is one of the 12 soft etcā
Shirkers, that was how Sifu Brendan Lai taught as well.
N.
-n-
Yeah Iāve heard others say that about sifu lai. I can see how you can gain from learning that way, but some people just need to be told to comprehend things to learn it faster. 
Thanks for taking the time shirkers, I appreciate it.
Like I said it seems you guys teach/train the way I do except we require the student to describe the technique as long, short, hard soft, double or any combination of the above. I know that is general but it does serve a purpose.
Master lai did not break it down either huh. That is interesting.
I am finding more dont breakit down than do.
Dont mean to pi** you off N tihis is just a subject that I am interested in.
Isnt this better to discuss on a praying mantis forum than people from Shanhai?
I would still like to hear how others approach this in their teaching
Thanks again guys
Martial Education
Hi All,
I am a firm believe that ultimately Kung Fu is about EDUCATION. It is martial in nature and it is hands on for sure.
The single most fundamental question for me is why are we doing what we are doing. Why Tanglangquan? Why not Karate or JKD or BJJ? Why drill hook grab pluck when we can just jab, cross and hook like a boxer? Believe it or not this forum meaning the real people behind it has helped me trememdously to find my answers to all these questions and more. In turn, it has helped people that I train found theirs.
I also believe that we should not confuse teacher-student loyality that is like filial piety with absolute truth. In all honesty, filial piety while it is a great virtue, is conditional and self serving. Absolute truth on the other hand is unconditional which means it is accessible for all and it welcomes all who wishes to enter it. Holding our teacherās inspiration and wisdom in high esteem is one thing. Engraving it in stone is quite another.
Having said that I have no problem in telling others that I personally have not heard GM Chiu talked much about 12 keywords and such things. May be he had with other more senior students and I wasnāt the āchosen oneā. But hey that doesnāt stop me from going down the rabbit hole and take the red pill.
Today, I am doing things differently from what GM Chiu taught me because I have my own experience with teaching different folks. I canāt say that I do things all on my own because I still based my training program on how I was trained. I took the liberty of focusing on applications, which was GM Chiuās to us advice anyway, and I work on ground fighting (still a taboo in the Kung Fu community) because it fascinates me to build on what I have been given. This would not be happening without sound traditional guidelines. So my interest in going through all classical theory of Tanglang becomes the driving force. Now I am glad to say that we can indeed explain the dynamics and mechanics of ground fighting with Classical Tanglang theory via the training program once set forth by GM Chiu.
I do not dare to compare myself with GM Chiu ever. He left us with the wooden dummy form as his great legacy. I would in a very small way gladly hand in my research on Mantis ground fighting training as my final exam assignment to him.
Warm regards
Mantis108
PS Kevin, me and other awaits your return. 
christ man, thatās like the best post ever for the Mantis Forum.
I too struggle with the filiel piety bit.
Sometimes itās really freaking hard to get accross a concept that you might understand but donāt exactly have the words for. Then it is a necessity for your students to trust you and do the work and let the knowledge arrive through the workā¦thatās how my first teacher (hung gar) taught me and the small handful of others he hadā¦ādo this and keep doing it and then you will understandā A lot of the time he was rightā¦sometimes he wasnāt.
So, I guess that was an argument for having the right words.
I know I donāt always have them though or there is some sort of communication barrier and that is when I just want my students to shut up for 5 seconds and just train and feel what itās supposed to be like.
ok, minor rant there can you tell what my latest struggles in class have been?
anywayā¦my only point above was that with the creation of MQ Forums, I was hoping for a total consolidation of my time on one forum.
Does it make any sense at all to even have this forum anymore?
Why have TWO Mantis forums?
I feel it is a shame that this thread has come about . People should be able to express their opinion about northern mantis in an open forum . If you do not agree with their point then comments should be made and information shared . If you find the thread offensive then donāt read it or reply to it . The people who have replied to these threads with negative comments are just as bad as the person who initiated it .
I have tried to share information over this site to try to bring a more informed conversation about but to no avail . If I said how **** mantis style is then people seem to carry it on for ages . It makes no sense .
Good luck to Shifu Cottrell and the MQ site it really is very good . He has done a sterling job with it . I will agree that I struggle with the technical terminology that is constantly used but it is great to hear what is going on in the mantis world .
I will be sorry to see this site diminish , it has helped me with my research and has introduced me to some great mantis guys . I personally feel that it should be here and open to all which I understand the MQ site may not be . Do we need both sides of the coin ?
If you only want one forum why not just one branch of 7star or TJMH?
I personally like to have more than one option.
I have had more questions answered here thatn on the MQ forum. Dont get me wrong I like the MQ forum.
I have learned alot from Mr. 108ās forum. Should we shut it down as well?
I dont think so.
I asked the same question about the mantis techniques and got nothing. I may have rattled a few cages here but at least I have a general idea of who focuses on these things.
The questions are not to make anyone look bad it is to find out that if I am missing something critical. If so I would search it out. It does not seem that I am missing that much, so I can leave it alone now.
You have to understand that when people respond to the trouble makers they must be getting some kind of entertainment out of it, or they would just ignore it.
Mr. 108
Thank you for your honest and informative reply.
As I understand it the MQ Forum is open to all practitioners of ANY branch of NPM. Iām not sure but I think that Sifu Pel is even a member at MQ. So, I donāt believe there to be any discrimination other than that it is a forum for MANTIS people.
The only caveat that I know of is that the moderators will be putting up with even less crap than BTL does here.
The point being to create a forum for the transfer and sharing of knowledge.
IMO, if everyone were to agree to focus their time and energies onto one forum instead of 2, or even 3 (sorry Robert, forgot about yours) then I think you would find that more questions would be answered because there would be more poeple hanging around in ONE spot to answer them.
If you only want one forum why not just one branch of 7star or TJMH?
thatās not an apples to apples comparison.
I personally like to have more than one option.
great idea in general. In this instance the main historical researchers present in the mantis world at the moment are at MQ. They are also here some as well but it makes total sense that any information they share with us be archived at one location.
I have had more questions answered here thatn on the MQ forum. Dont get me wrong I like the MQ forum.
again, i believe that would change if people didnāt have to chose between going to one forum or the other.
I have learned alot from Mr. 108ās forum. Should we shut it down as well?
I dont think so.
no. as I understand it, Robertās main focus there is on TCPMā¦but I donāt know because I personally donāt have time ( as much as I value Robert ) to hit yet another forum.
I asked the same question about the mantis techniques and got nothing. I may have rattled a few cages here but at least I have a general idea of who focuses on these things.
The questions are not to make anyone look bad it is to find out that if I am missing something critical. If so I would search it out. It does not seem that I am missing that much, so I can leave it alone now.
I would have to say that was just good timing. shirkers1 seems to spend equal time between the two and was willing to answer your questions. good on him and you both.
You have to understand that when people respond to the trouble makers they must be getting some kind of entertainment out of it, or they would just ignore it.
agreed wholeheartedly. I myself donāt understand the personality behind people who get off on that but that is yet another reason to have, for the express purpose of exchanging information between mantis practitioners, a separate forum where trolling and counter-trolling (hey, I think I just coined that) are absolutely forbidden.
oso
You have made all very good points. I can see your reasoning and it does make sense.
But I also see the benifit of having more than one forum. It takes me less than 2 seconds to go from this forum to the quarterly. That is all I have to say on this issue.
I did start a new thread on mantis forms and would like to see what your feelings are on this issue.
Thanks
Oh, Iām not pissed off or anything. No problem! Just giving an example of one point of view.
N.
Very zenā¦ experience directly. Talking and thinking deludes and misleads
N.
This forum is a great avenue for learning. There will be peaks and valleys, just like our training. We should stand strong and see the forest thru the trees. Everything is like a circleā¦