New to Southern Mantis---Need Help

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
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Here’s hoping some of you more experienced Southern Mantis practitioners can help me. I’ve spent the last couple of years practicing a combination Yang/Chen Tai Chi style. Recently, I’ve become fascinated by Southern Mantis as it seems to be a comparatively rare Kung Fu style that would not be as diluted & commercialized as some others out there. My Tai Chi teacher is open to my training in Mantis as he does not seem to think it will interfere with my Tai Chi.

Living in the Dallas, Tx area though, my training choices are few. There is a school in Houston headed by one Henry Poo Yee that I am thinking about. I might be able to make the drive about once a month or so. My travel time & budget are a little limited right now. I am most interested in a school I found at www.bambootemple.com that offers a “correspondence vido training” course. They are frank about the limitations of video training, which I know would be the case, but my thought is that I coud get some of the basics from the vido training & perhaps fly to their Decatur, Al school once or twice a year. Does anyone know if these guys are for real or have any experience with them?

My situation is further complicated by the fact that I might relocate to either Spokane, Wa or Coeur D’ Alene, Idaho by the end of the year, so I’m wondering if there’s any traditional CMA anywhere around there.

I’m basically a babe in the woods when it comes to Southern Mantis. I’ve been exposed to some Northern Mantis before, but I understand the Southern Mantis style is pretty much a different animal. I’ve also gotten the feeling that there are some Southern Mantis rivalries going on out there and I have no wish to step on anyone’s toes; I just need some info & opinions.

If anyone can give me some feedbck on the two schools I mentioned above and/or general thoughts on Southern Mantis compared to to Tai Chi or Northern Mantis…or anything else you can enlighten me on, I would be extremely grateful.

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If you do move to Washington or Idaho there is a Jook Loom southern mantis sifu under two different Jook Lum southern mantis lineages in Portland Oregon hear is the information as it was told to me
A first generation disciple of Lee-Yin-Sing is in the USA; Koo-Kam-Sing, Portland Oregon. He does WYG Pai Jook-Lum and Hsing-Yi and mixes the three together. He was taught by both WYG and LYS

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Hey Ace,

I moved to Plano about a year ago, and was hoping to find a good SPM school in the area, but as you well know there is not one. I practiced Taekwon-Do for a few years, but it has been awhile. I have creaky knees due to too much tennis, and at 45 years old, I decided to look for something more practical than TKD. I have always been fascinated by SPM since I first saw an article in the August 1969 issue of Black Belt magazine about Gin Foon Mark when I was 12 years old!

Not finding a SPM school anywhere around, I was thinking about signing up for Wing Chun classes at the Nortel Kung Fu Club run by Son Dinh(in association with Sifu Steve Cottrel), however I decided that before doing so I would visit the Hung Gar Kung Fu Academy operated by Sifu Phillip Ng in Richardson and was quite impressed. I even noticed that one of their advanced forms is called “Praying Mantis”. I ended up enrolling there just this past week. Sifu Ng and his advanced students have gone out of their way to make me feel at home there. If you have not yet visited there, you might be interested in doing so. Their web site is: http://www.hungfist.com/

Either way, good luck and you can e-mail me anytime you would like to discuss Kung fu in the North Tx area. In addition to the e-mail address in my profile, there is also: rfbrown3@earthlink.net

Robert, MDK Tiger

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Long distance Sifu

If all you want is to learn forms, then video isn’t all that bad.

Paul Whitrod’s Chow Gar Southern Mantis series is the best of the bunch.
He is a bona-fide Sifu with excellent skill and presentation,

That being said, unless you have a live teacher who “plays hands” with you
and helps you develop the nuances of SPM, you will never get it. Your forms
might look good, but your hands will be empty.

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Thanks guys for your replies. I’ll look into your specific suggestions.

Anyone else? ANy info or experiences out there re: Roger Hagood & the SOuthern Mantis school out of Decatur, AL?

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Gone Fishing???

Why do I get the distinct feeling that Mr Ace is out here trolling like a Mother F***er???

Some things never change.

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“Correspondence”

Like I said, unless you spend a LOT of time with a teacher ONE on ONE,
you won’t get this art. Frequent flyer miles don’t make you better.

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JAZ1069, I don’t know what your problem might be. What exactly makes you think I am a troll? I’m simply very new to the Southern Mantis scene & would like to get some info from people who are active in the arena. I listed a couple of schools/individuals I had run across in the little research I’ve been able to do & I hoped to get some feedback. If this makes me a “troll” so be it…I’m off to find a good bridge to fight some billy goats over.

Bong, your point is well taken. I didn’t really figure you could learn what seems to be a very traditional art from tapes…but I had hopes as I have zero opportunity to learn Southern Mantis in Dallas. My nearest possible teacher would be a Henry Poo Yee in Houston & that would involve as many out of town trips as I could make. (Oops, I mentioned an individual…I must be trolling again.) I do thank you for your feedback.

MDK Tiger, I likewise thank you for your opinions & ideas. I actually went to Son Dinh’s class a time or two & was very impressed. I’m keeping his Wing Chun class in the back of my mind. By the same token, I visited Sifu Ng’s school a couple of years ago. As I recall, I spoke to a student named Ricky who advised me that they did not really teach combat at the school. I was a little disappointed in this as my firm belief that any Kung Fu must have an emphasis on combat efficiency somewhere down the line. Has your experience been different? Perhaps I misunderstood.

I will continue my search for this fascinating art & hopefully “troll” my way to further info somewhere. :rolleyes:

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Firehawk, Thank you also for the Oregon info. I may very well be moving to the Northwest next year & I will keep your info in mind.

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Ace,

I think maybe that Sifu Ng’s emphasis may well be on forms, Lion Dancing , and most of all conditioning. I did ask one of the associate instructors, Peter, if there is anything comparable to “playing hands” as in Wing Chun or SPM, and was told that Hung Gar has it, but on a different level than Wing Chun and that while Wing Chun relies on speed, Hung Gar relies more on strength.

While I am still very impressed with the Kung Fu that I see in this school, much of the class is spent on stretching and conditioning, and in the back of my mind, I keep asking myself if I really need to pay someone to do this. On the other hand, Hung Gar movements are incorporated into the exercises, so that I realize that I am building a good physical foundation for Kung Fu, and hopefully develop some Chi in the process.

I do not met any Ricks, the senior instructors I have met are Peter, Phil, and Henry. Peter is very young, but also very knowledgable. Phil has been very open to all my questions and he has been very encouraging. Henry, well Henry seems to me to be a very serious and dedicated martial artist. Check out his web page at: http://shaolinhungfist.netfirms.com/shaolinhungfist.html

As I grow older, my knees have become weaker, and I am hoping that the conditioning I am getting at this kwoon will help to strengthen the muscles around the knees and therefore take some of the stress off of the joints. I was in a Horse stance so much last night that today, my thighs and knees ached tremendously, but in a good way. However being a tall thin person, I still do not know if the low rigid stances of Hung Gar are for me, but time will tell, and I think that is the jest of it all. Only after lots and lots of practice, will I be able to fully understand and learn the many aspects of this art. I am sure that two man forms and “playing hands” are a part of it, but since Hung Gar is a very traditional art, it may be way down the line for me to practice those disciplines. Having said that, Son Dinh’s class is in the back of my mind too, and if Sifu Ng’s class ends up not being what I want in the way of Martial Art instruction, I will fall back on Wing Chun. Maybe I should just do Wing Chun to begin with, but for right now I am still too curious and impressed with Hung Gar to immediately give up on it.

Now if Sifu Yee would just open up a Dallas branch, both our problems might be solved. :wink:

Robert, MDK Tiger

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MDK Tiger

Have you thought about any of the Crane systems?

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Could be wrong

Ace:

If you had seen the “sludge comments” that were posting here during the winter you’d understand.

Now when I see anyone who is new, and brings up the website and names you brought up, I am quick to believe someone is sneaking in trying to stir stuff up again.

If you are sincere, my appoligies. :smiley:

If you are not, get a life…:mad:

Good luck with your training…

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Bong,

Thanks for the suggestion, but the only choices we have in Dallas that I am aware of are: Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, 7-Star Mantis, and My Jhong Law Horn, and Hung Gar.

As I am sure you already know, Hung Gar is Tiger Crane, but from what I have observed so far, it looks more Tiger than Crane, but my exposure has been thus far very limited.

When I was younger I wanted to learn some kind of Kung Fu, but living out in West TX all we had there was Taekwon-Do. I did it for awhile, and I think I did it pretty well. But now that I am older, and the joints are much more creaky, especially the left knee, I wanted to practice something more practical than TKD. Last year when I first moved to the Dallas area, I joined a YMCA not too far from my house that taught Tang Soo Do. I told the instructor that I even though I had some experience in TKD, I wanted to come in and start as a beginner because I thought it would take me some time to get into the kind of shape needed to do 360 degree jump spinning back kicks. He laughed at me and said that he evaluates each student and brings them along to their own abilities. Well the very first night in class, guess what? Yep jump spinning back kicks, lots of them! I tore a hamstring in my right leg and did something to my right hip, that took months before it began to feel normal again. I swore off Korean styles right then and there. No I did not sue, heck I did not even go to the Doctor. Just swore off Korean martial arts. :mad:

I then made the decision that if I ever got into Martial Arts again, it would only be if I could find a good school teaching some kind of Southern style of Kung Fu. I wanted SPM, but not finding a SPM school in the area, I decided to check out a Wing Chun class, and I just almost signed up with them, when at the last minute I thought I would first visit the Hung Gar school taught by Sifu Phillip Ng. I ended up staying and am now in my second week of class there. Whether Hung Gar is for my semi-tall, thin frame or not with its low rigid stance, I do not know, but only time will tell. I am impressed with it enough though that I feel I should stick with it for a few weeks, even months before considering that question.

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jaz1069, I appreciate the apology, half-hearted though it may be. Rest assured I am not here to stir up any trouble. In fact, although I am dimly aware of some SPM rivalries, I’m not really sure who is involved or where they stem from. I’m not sure Iwant to know. I first became aware of SPM while reading Jane Hallander’s “Complete Guide to Kung Fu Styles.” I then happened upon an article in Inside Kung-Fu regarding the soft Chi-Kung associated with SPM. Having a Tai Chi Chuan background, I grew interested & I began to pick up a few more bits of info here & there. The combat efficiency & traditional training that I keep hearing about really interests me.

MDK Tiger, I think I’ll take you up on your generous offer & e-mail you off-forum. It sounds like you’ve checked out some of the same schools that I have. There is a school that I have looked at in Richardson which purports to teach a combination of Northern & Southern Kung-Fu. I’m told their base style is 5 Animals Kung Fu. Maybe we can review the school together if you have an interest.

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You CAN’T learn from videos!! With out some-one there to push, shout, motivate you, you will never move beyond your “safety zone” and thus not learn the depths of Kung fu.

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Ace,
Yeah, e-mail me anytime. My work schedule may prevent me from doing much in the next couple of weeks as I will be working until 5 or 6 in Keller starting on Tues.

I never did physically visit Son Dinh’s WC class, only had some e-mail with him, plus checked out their web page. If you are interested, their club is high on my list of places to visit.

I hate to give the impression that I am unsatisfied with Hung Gar so soon, but I have to admit that at least beginning on an intermediate level, I do not want to be paying for nothing more than stretching and exercise for what amounts to almost 3/4 of the class time. I do not mind at first, in fact I like the idea of someone making me getting my lazy arse in shape, but after awhile, I would like to think that I am getting my money’s worth in actual martial arts training!

At least on the Nortel web page, you can see photos of students “playing hands” and hitting focus bags. No disrespect meant for Sifu Ng, who I have the highest respect for, but I have to admit that I am more interested combat training than in preparing for Lion Dancing demos.

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Some good replies for you Ace.

It’s true - you can’t learn from a video.
My training in SPM depends on contact with others.
Without it the techniques are worthless.

“What is seen is not the same as what is felt.”

Enough said.

Good luck. Stick to it.