https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-j3yeN23B8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg5eoyXFbU8
Some new clips for you all
Thanks for posting those. Good to see some real WC.
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1290972]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-j3yeN23B8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg5eoyXFbU8
Some new clips for you all[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. What is this type of chi sau developing?
Allen is badass Wing Chun !
[QUOTE=guy b.;1291052]Thanks for posting. What is this type of chi sau developing?[/QUOTE]
Did you not watch them? Where did I say this was a type of Chi Sao?
I thought these to be vids on structure or mechanical advantage if you prefer. Alan did mention mechanics. But, I am not Wing Chun so what the heck do I know anything about this ? Of the vids I have seen of Alan, I have liked what he shows.
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1291085]Did you not watch them? Where did I say this was a type of Chi Sao?[/QUOTE]
In the first video you start doing chi sau at 3.30. What are you aiming to develop with this type of chi sau incorporating the “force flow” you are talking about in the clips?
In the second video you are doing chi sau from 5.30. Again what is the aim of the training?
Looks like something fun to play with in chi-sau, but I’ve never seen it come out in any of your guys’ fights.
Is there any fight I missed where it was applied? I’ve seen some Wing Chun body mechanics in your free striking, but that’s about it. No manipulation of opponents like this seems to take place.
Just wondering, if it never comes out in fights, why not just spend more time on the stuff that actually works for you? Or as guy b. asks, what is the expected end-goal of this type of training?
[QUOTE=LFJ;1291208]Looks like something fun to play with in chi-sau, but I’ve never seen it come out in any of your guys’ fights.
Is there any fight I missed where it was applied? I’ve seen some Wing Chun body mechanics in your free striking, but that’s about it. No manipulation of opponents like this seems to take place.
Just wondering, if it never comes out in fights, why not just spend more time on the stuff that actually works for you? Or as guy b. asks, what is the expected end-goal of this type of training?[/QUOTE]
I am sure that Alan doesn’t need my input on this, but the reason you don’t “see it” is the same reason you don’t see chi sao in a real fighter either.
The drills are used to develop a foundation for practical application which is then developed in sparring.
//youtu.be/epCbRTofOHw
[QUOTE=LFJ;1291208]Looks like something fun to play with in chi-sau, but I’ve never seen it come out in any of your guys’ fights.
Is there any fight I missed where it was applied? I’ve seen some Wing Chun body mechanics in your free striking, but that’s about it. No manipulation of opponents like this seems to take place.
Just wondering, if it never comes out in fights, why not just spend more time on the stuff that actually works for you? Or as guy b. asks, what is the expected end-goal of this type of training?[/QUOTE]
Anyway, that is one way he could teach you. Im sure he can give regular people skills too. I see applications outside of kick punch. Well like, Gary Lam. Send a dude into a wall. Just because something does not look the same as what another does, does not mean it cant be the same art. Maybe not exactly the same. Different line or someone in that line decided. " Hey, I got an idea to work a concept differently" "Lets see if it holds up. Can we use it? If not, as a training drill can it teach us anything? " One attribute I see right of the bat is well it can teach you aggressiveness and how to redirect aggression (pressure). Another is, what if you do not have center? How do you get it back while staying in some control of your own balance?
But again, pick it apart, I love to read peoples views and understanding. That’s one way I learn.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1291211]I am sure that Alan doesn’t need my input on this, but the reason you don’t “see it” is the same reason you don’t see chi sao in a real fighter either.
The drills are used to develop a foundation for practical application which is then developed in sparring.[/QUOTE]
Asking what it is developing is a valid question. What is the practical skill or characteristic which is developed by doing these exercises?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1291211]I am sure that Alan doesn’t need my input on this, but the reason you don’t “see it” is the same reason you don’t see chi sao in a real fighter either.
The drills are used to develop a foundation for practical application which is then developed in sparring.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think what he’s showing is just the same as abstract training drills.
Sure, the “force flow” through his body may be invisible but it clearly has a visible effect on the opponent as he manipulates their balance and bounces them around while striking.
This seems to be what they intend to do with it in application.
If not, I’m asking what the goal is then.
Because I’ve not seen it happen in any of their fights. There is just free striking and BJJ, which is fine and works for them. I just wonder, why not continue to work on the things that actually show up in their fights and not spend time on apparent tricks that don’t?
Does Allen only train fighters because if not than maybe we are guilty of where it will work?
[QUOTE=LFJ;1291208]Looks like something fun to play with in chi-sau, but I’ve never seen it come out in any of your guys’ fights.
Is there any fight I missed where it was applied? I’ve seen some Wing Chun body mechanics in your free striking, but that’s about it. No manipulation of opponents like this seems to take place.
Just wondering, if it never comes out in fights, why not just spend more time on the stuff that actually works for you? Or as guy b. asks, what is the expected end-goal of this type of training?[/QUOTE]
The problem is without the depth of understanding of what we really do, most can not see it. My guys do use these skills in fights. They are how the body is used under pressure and the reason why my guys always seem so strong and powerful. So the goal of this type of training is live pressure timing and control.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1291211]I am sure that Alan doesn’t need my input on this, but the reason you don’t “see it” is the same reason you don’t see chi sao in a real fighter either.
The drills are used to develop a foundation for practical application which is then developed in sparring.[/QUOTE]
correct. chi sao and drills are skill development
[QUOTE=guy b.;1291280]Asking what it is developing is a valid question. What is the practical skill or characteristic which is developed by doing these exercises?[/QUOTE]
It is developing many skills. Timing of bow sequencing, control of power, power generation, positioning, awareness of angles, distancing the list goes on.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1291305]I don’t think what he’s showing is just the same as abstract training drills.
Sure, the “force flow” through his body may be invisible but it clearly has a visible effect on the opponent as he manipulates their balance and bounces them around while striking.
This seems to be what they intend to do with it in application.
If not, I’m asking what the goal is then.
Because I’ve not seen it happen in any of their fights. There is just free striking and BJJ, which is fine and works for them. I just wonder, why not continue to work on the things that actually show up in their fights and not spend time on apparent tricks that don’t?[/QUOTE]
I’m not doing BJJ in my clip. I have showing sequence control of the bows and dealing with pressure. Please read my over new posts. Note to all please post your live sparring of train training clips to show your example of how you develop your skills. That way we can compare ideas and I will be happy to film more clips.
Note to all if you like to meet up then please post your name and location and we can arrange exchanges with me and or my guys and film experiences rather than just guess stuff. Guys that have met me have confirmed it is very different first hand.
[QUOTE=guy b.;1291052]Thanks for posting. What is this type of chi sau developing?[/QUOTE]
On the other forum you called Peter Irving a low level MMA fighter. Where are you based? As Peter would be happy to meet up so you can spar and see the difference of a real fighter of his level. I have taught Peter for 8 years and coached him when he beat UFC fighters and a Bellator Champ. So his level is far from low. You can give your deeper insight to the forum once you have found some balls and sparred a few rounds with him.
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1291630]The problem is without the depth of understanding of what we really do, most can not see it. My guys do use these skills in fights. They are how the body is used under pressure and the reason why my guys always seem so strong and powerful. So the goal of this type of training is live pressure timing and control.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying the goal is not to affect the opponent’s balance and bounce them around while striking them, as in the chi-sau clips?
Because while the “force flow” in your body may be invisible, the effect on the opponent would be perfectly visible in fights, but it doesn’t happen.