originally posted by B.Tunks
Also, the hook hands in TLQ is not the guard. The fists and palms are. The hook hands in tanglang shuang feng shou are the termination of an arm lock and takedown (in most cases) and there is no use for any movement at the conclusion. In fact, it should end in a dead freeze. you are right about the actual insect though. Apparently it also helps in camouflaging the mantis amongst moving foliage.
That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say throughout this entire thread. Thank you for clarifying this so well. Whenever the hook hands are applied they always end in a dead freeze. There’s absolutely no reason to do the rocking movement unless it’s for a Disney On Ice show or a flashy stage performance.
The reason I’m so outspoken about this is because I was docked points on the judges score cards at the CMAT tournament in '09. I was told by one of the judges in that supposedly traditional event that they needed to see more “looseness” as he mimicked the Yu Hai style rocking motion with the hooks. At that point I was reminded of someone telling me that some of the older wushu forms were considered to be traditional at this tournament. So I guess Yu Hai’s embellishment is the standard now!? Don’t get me wrong, I always thought those old Jet Li films were entertaining. But it seems as though they’ve had far too much influence on what’s now considered to be real martial arts in mainland China. People just can’t see them for the fantasies that they are. Real traditional styles don’t have techniques meant for show. In real traditional styles every move is meant for fighting, there’s no flourishes or dancing. I always knew Mantis boxing to be one of these styles. I guess times are changing.
Flowery wushu has been an issue since the Ming. Sport wushu doesn’t have a monopoly on it. In honesty, all Chinese martial art has a performance/flash element no matter how much it is denied.
[QUOTE=Siu Lum Fighter;1097860]but you don’t actually see a “body vibration” like the one when he forms the mantis claw (if that’s what you’re talking about).[/QUOTE]
The 1st time I saw that body vibration (at the ending of Bung Bo) was from Brandon Lai. He did it one night on the street of San Francisco just in front of Adam Hsu, Y C Wong after we had dinner in Hung Gar master Y C Wong’s house. IMO, the body vibration is just a test for your Shenfa and may not have any combat value in it (same as to stand on single leg after throwing your opponent).
The (Tang Lang Shou) - mantis arm" is quite useful in wrestling. You use your wrist to hook behind your opponet’s neck. You use your fore-arm to touch on your opponent’s chest. Chinese wrestling only uses one arm. If you use it on both arms, that’s exactly the same as the MT clinching.
Originally Posted by B.Tunks
Flowery wushu has been an issue since the Ming. Sport wushu doesn’t have a monopoly on it. In honesty, all Chinese martial art has a performance/flash element no matter how much it is denied.
This is true. It’s been said that when the Qing conquered China certain rebels went into hiding and joined traveling caravans of Chinese Opera performers. In this way they managed to make money and travel throughout the land, openly performing their styles with exaggerated and flowery movements in order to disguise their lethal skills from the authorities (of course, some would tell you that styles like Kanjiaquan managed to survive completely unscathed through all of this but that’s another debate). It was because of these circumstances that certain techniques within many Northern Changquan styles retained this flavor. I believe it’s been argued that my own style of Bei Shaolin has some of these performance elements. Although I really feel this could only be the case with a certain few of the movements like the ones that are done in a standing position with both feet together (a stance that is common to many styles including Tang Lang). Even though I wouldn’t if I could help it, I actually still feel like I could effectively kick ass with these techniques even if I were standing that way.
Modern wushu seems to be a phenomena that’s been shaped and formed by different yet similar restrictions. Practitioners no longer had to practice in small hidden rooms or courtyards, but the emphasis on lethality and effectiveness in real combat was strongly discouraged. Of course, this was partly because the state didn’t want people learning lethal fighting techniques from their own personal teachers (many of whom might be critical of the government). Hence, the grand gymnastic routines that we usually associate with modern wushu. I’m not saying that the flowery aspect isn’t still there in many pre-1960’s styles, it’s just not as big and expansive. In a wushu set you might run ten or fifteen feet, do an aerial cartwheel, and then explode with a flurry of blocks, punches, and kicks rather than just a “phoenix circles it’s nest” movement, or “hero stands on one leg” stance.
[QUOTE=Siu Lum Fighter;1100057] It’s been said that when the Qing conquered China certain rebels went into hiding and joined traveling caravans of Chinese Opera performers. In this way they managed to make money and travel throughout the land, openly performing their styles with exaggerated and flowery movements in order to disguise their lethal skills from the authorities[/QUOTE]
im sorry to tell you this but for the last 200 years the rebels had been supporting the qing and dedicated to extermination of foreigners. the evil empire they were fighting against was yours.
qing emperor refurnished the temple many times gave financial aid.
one of the main styles trained by boxer rebels who killed hundreds of missionaries and nuns was shaolin quan, taught by monk xinchen.
Some of you have to clarify what you mean by vibration. When a technique stops dead from moving fast it will always vibrate, especially if you use a lot of power. So there is nothing wrong with your body shaking after doing a powerful move with the hooks, surely. But if you deliberately extend this and move in circles thats the performance thing right?
So are you guys talking about the vibration or the purposeful circles?