Can we have an intelligent discussion about this? The usual answers are things like:
if u do that to[sic] much u’ll get arthrtisis[sic] in ur[sic] shins
Guess what, your shin is not a joint, and therefore you can’t get arthritis.
Now, I’m aware of Wolff’s Law that states that when repetitive force is applied to a bone, it becomes more dense (ok I think that’s Wolff’s Law. Correct me if I’m wrong.)
What causes the increase in pain tolerance?
What causes shins to snap like in that Muay Thai clip that gets posted on martial arts boards every so often?
You hear about 40 year old Thai Boxers who were crazy in their youth and now can’t walk properly cuz of shin and leg damage. But is that legit? It’d assume shin conditioning would be better for you then knuckle conditioning, and lots of people still have functioning hands after conditioning them (altho a lot of people have messed up hands, too).
In terms of actual damage done to the shin, is there a difference, other than in pain, between a total n00b blocking a hard kick with his shin and falling over in pain, and a well-conditioned person blocking the same hard kick and not even being bothered by it?
So let’s talk about it, but lets keep it an intelligent discussion.
What causes shins to snap like in that Muay Thai clip that gets posted on martial arts boards every so often?
No idea, but i’ll say something anyways. Maybe it has something to do with hitting the shin just right, or not drinking enough milk, or fantasizing about your cousin, or believing in Ashida KIm. who knows?
The pain tolerance comes from “killing the nerves” on the front of your shins. Im not sure about Wolffs law, but they will get thicker and heavier with use, both from denser bone, and denser leg muscles. Someone else should come on here and explain about thai’s calcium deficient diet, which would prevent the bones from getting thicker and make the leg/bone weaker with use. Master Chai and many others in the US and now in Thailand are very good examples of older thai’s that have no bone problems.
You should also notice your leg hair growing thinning or dissapearing, and the shape of the front of your leg should be getting “sharper” as that thin muscle gets stronger and bigger.
I’d say that the older MT peeps that have leg problems have suffered several hairline fractures etc that went untreated and caused complecations later in time. If you take care of yourself and don’t overtrain, you should be able to condition your shins without long-term adverse effects.
FWIW, my shin-training involves application of dit da jow after rolling a pvc pipe full of sand over them a few hundred times.
Judge Pen: We also apply liberal amounts of Jow prior to the conditioning as well, my mentor says it helps the tissue change and the conditioning drives the jow deeper into the area..
What causes the increase in pain tolerance?
adaption + adrenaline…
What causes shins to snap like in that Muay Thai clip that gets posted on martial arts boards every so often?
i read somewhere that dude had a previous break… and and just got caught in the right spot…
You hear about 40 year old Thai Boxers who were crazy in their youth and now can’t walk properly cuz of shin and leg damage. But is that legit?
years of getting kicked in the knees… hips… twisted ankles… etc will do crazy things to a persons stride… no?..
In terms of actual damage done to the shin, is there a difference, other than in pain, between a total n00b blocking a hard kick with his shin and falling over in pain, and a well-conditioned person blocking the same hard kick and not even being bothered by it?
doing pads last night i kept catching my toes on odd angles of the pad… hurt like a b!tch… but i could push thru it… even tho i took a lil steam out of my kicks… i remember being a noob and doing the same but i had to hop around b’n & m’n like it was the worse pain in the world… after a while you just get used to it… it hurts?.. yep… big deal… mix in the excitement of a fight situation… you wont feel a thing… that is… until its over…
I think breakage is a risk period, no matter how much conditioning you do. you start slamming your legs together like that and it has to happen some of the time, probably not a whole lot you can do about it except either, not do it, or take care of yourself as best you can.
I can’t imagine the calcification that goes on does any damage to the legs, although techinically that’s what your doing is damaging the bone. It wouldn’t surprise me that there are side effects for some people but my guess would be that mosre often then not there are other factors. Genetics I’m sure can play a part but I think just taking care of yourself, not overtraining, getting plenty of calcium and watching for fractures and all those things Judge Pen mentioned.
as a side not ethat may or may not have anything to do with it, I’ve noticed that when I’m working out consistantly doing wieghts and cardio my pain tolerance seems to go way up.
Seems to me that there are a good number of thai coaches in the US who’s professional careers in thailand have come and gone.
I think if there were any validity to this theory, there would be more of them zoomin around in wheel chairs at events.
I just don’t see it.
Haven’t even heard of this rumor outside of the kung fu community, who used it as a reason for the superiority of kung fu; ignoring the fact that kung fu masters of old used many more damaging training methods back in the day.
The sad truth is that these iron legs come from kicking the bag all day, not rolling pins, glass bottles, kicking 2x4s buried in the dirt, or any of the other methods you hear about. The rubber tree thing was an old school thing when they didn’t have enough money for a bag.
Why wouldn’t iron shin training be consistent with Tai Chi? Just because it is a soft and flowing style doesn’t mean they don’t hit like a mack truck.
As for the bag being the ONLY way, I respectfully disagree. I think that will work, as will these other methods too. I’m wary of any MA who claims that their method is the only means to and end.
Originally posted by yenhoi You should also notice your leg hair growing thinning or dissapearing, and the shape of the front of your leg should be getting “sharper” as that thin muscle gets stronger and bigger.
I’ve heard the hair getting thinner thing before. The shape of the front of your leg shouldn’t change at all. The muscle in the front of the shin (tibialis anterior) shouldn’t be changing shape. Hitting a muscle doesn’t make it bigger. That muscle only contracts when you pull your foot up toward your knee, anyway (the opposite of pointing your foot). Since the foot should be pointed when kicking or blocking (less risk of damage to the toes), the muscle would be relaxed and elongated and wouldn’t even be making contact with whatever you’re hitting.
Once again, the only way that muscle is going to get bigger if you do reverse calf raises, which 99% of people don’t even know what that is. It’s like saying forearm conditioning will make your forearm muscles bigger and stronger. It’s not true.
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]There are many thread on this subject here, or at least at www.defend.net
:eek: [/B]
Can you please post relevant links? I searched from the main page and got “File Not Found,” and then I searched from the Forums index and got “no matches found.” I searched for “shin conditioning.”
Originally posted by Judge Pen As for the bag being the ONLY way, I respectfully disagree. I think that will work, as will these other methods too.
I think you missed my point.
I was coming from the viewpoint of the Thais.
If we’re talking about the Thais, then my heavybag comment is accurate.
There have been plenty of people who’ve gone to training camps in thailand to train with competitive thais who have reported that said thais do nothing more than kick the heavybag for the insane shins.
You can read some of these accounts on the Underground’s Kickboxing forum.
Heck the moderator there, Khun Kao, actually posts here.
The front of my shins has definitly become “sharper” in the last 2-3 years. Could be that my legs just weerent anything near as strong or as built as they coulda been at that point, but the muscle on the front has become more pronounced for sure. On a thai round kick you should be pointing your toes to make sure this muscle has a good amount of tension, among other reasons.
When we do 'rounds they have an equal about of knees (toes pointing down) and kicks (toes pointing up) and shields which sometimes have the toes up or down, but usually up.
At any rate, it takes thousands and thousands of repetitions before you have anything; sharpness, hardness, power, timing, etc.
My shins are hard like rocks. Often times while drunk at parties I knock on them loudly to amaze the other drunkards… Then they try and start ****ing about their bruised shins.
Bahahaha.
<- rolls a 60 lb pvc pipe down the shins. I have beautiful bald strips down the middle too.
Sweet.
