Learning Martial Arts from Video!

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

So I trained at a kung fu school for 3.5 years and then with a private teacher for another 6 months or so. I am by no means an expert but I feel that I have more than a solid grasp of the basics with some intermediate and advanced stuff thrown in.

One of the things that I’ve always loved about my training was working with the staff. I love it, it’s fun and I’m not too bad at it. BUT I’ve only got 1 staff form under my belt and a limited amount of techniques.

I decided two weeks ago that I was going to purchase a staff form on video. Here’s the one that I got from good old martial arts mart: http://www.martialartsmart.net/tcck003.html

I discovered, because of my background and having a solid understanding of the basics, that I would be able to learn this form from video as well as improve my old form and have more of an understanding of applications.

This discovery really opens up a whole new world for me. I don’t intend to go crazy with purchasing videos but when I do find one that I like, I will buy it, learn it and expand on what I already know.

I don’t intend to teach or open up a school but I think that videos are a great way to expand your knowledge of kung fu and maybe even improve a bit. I don’t intend to collect a bunch of forms, I just enjoy the training and sparring.

I’m lucky enough to have a friend who has an interest in kung fu and has had more years of training than I do so he can be my training partner in all of this.

So with the proper background, learning kung fu from video is not only possible but a great way to expand your knowledge.

Any thoughts on this?

2

As long as evil, greedy teachers who teach mostly forms without applications and do their best to scam money off of poor unsuspecting students go out of business, I have no complaint with whatever you do.

Seriously, though, if you can find somebody to train with that doesn’t turn it into just a social hour, that’s great for you.

It seems like they need to have something like where you can train in what you want with people, like a gym or private lessons. I suggested it to Gene, open up TC Martial Arts schools where you can buy the video and then go train with people, but he says it’s too much overhead for them.

3

Been thinking about taking a Choy Li Fut correspondence course myself. Although I could use to re-visit basics, it is not challenging me enough. So I thought maybe I could learn by video and hopefull it will challenge me. Maybe it will enhance my Long Fist training too. Heck I already know of the Choy Li Fut weapons form.

I guess the ultimate test would be to learn the form and compete with it and see how you do…

4

I have done it, from books too. I found in the end you need a teacher to really help coach you though all the nuances.

That said, you can do quite a lot with video so long as you have a good training partner to reallly work on material with.

When you consider the large scale of low quality teachers, and the high quality ones that old back for only the chosen few that are out there, video is just about good as anything else.

5

[QUOTE=neilhytholt;750466]As long as evil, greedy teachers who teach mostly forms without applications and do their best to scam money off of poor unsuspecting students go out of business, I have no complaint with whatever you do.

Seriously, though, if you can find somebody to train with that doesn’t turn it into just a social hour, that’s great for you.

It seems like they need to have something like where you can train in what you want with people, like a gym or private lessons. I suggested it to Gene, open up TC Martial Arts schools where you can buy the video and then go train with people, but he says it’s too much overhead for them.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about “evil” but I certainly understand the greedy part as well as the “only teach forms” part.

Being good at kung fu doesn’t make you a good businessman and vice versa.

You have an interesting idea with the open gym. But I understand Gene’s Overhead point. Rent, utilities, equipment, salaries. It could get pricey.

6

[QUOTE=xcakid;750471]Been thinking about taking a Choy Li Fut correspondence course myself. Although I could use to re-visit basics, it is not challenging me enough. So I thought maybe I could learn by video and hopefull it will challenge me. Maybe it will enhance my Long Fist training too. Heck I already know of the Choy Li Fut weapons form.

I guess the ultimate test would be to learn the form and compete with it and see how you do…[/QUOTE]
I’m not really talking about a corespondence course. I still want to focus on the material I’ve already learned but have not mastered. I would like to use videos to enhance my other training not take the place of it.

A martial artist friend of mine once told me. Take what you can from other systems and incorporate it into your own. You’ll end up being a more well rounded fighter that can recognize other fighting arts and adapt to them. Sounds very Bruce Lee like, but it makes sense so this is what I’m trying to do.

7

[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;750483]I have done it, from books too. I found in the end you need a teacher to really help coach you though all the nuances.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Right now my main art is BJJ. I attend a black belt school 2 or 3 times a week. I’m keeping up with and expanding slightly with my kung fu in my free time, of which, there is not much.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;750483]
That said, you can do quite a lot with video so long as you have a good training partner to reallly work on material with.[/QUOTE]
I’ve got a good friend and training partner that I plan to hook up with here a few times a month. I also have you guys. I intend to video my progress and post it here.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;750483]
When you consider the large scale of low quality teachers, and the high quality ones that old back for only the chosen few that are out there, video is just about good as anything else.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, very true. And we all can’t live in an area where great teachers are available.

8

and now for your moment of zen…

not that one can’t learn a fair amount in that time but the more you really know the more you realize how much you really don’t.

:stuck_out_tongue:

9

[QUOTE=Chief Fox;750497]I don’t know about “evil” but I certainly understand the greedy part as well as the “only teach forms” part.

Being good at kung fu doesn’t make you a good businessman and vice versa.

You have an interesting idea with the open gym. But I understand Gene’s Overhead point. Rent, utilities, equipment, salaries. It could get pricey.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, perhaps evil is too strong a word here.

They could try it small first. Like they could offer a TC certification program in something, Nine Continents staff applications, for example, which would only require TC to give seminars, and then the individual instructors could fly out, get certified, fly back and offer classes with TC sparring weapons, sparring shoes, and other gear.

It would be a total money maker for TC, because people could buy the TC media video, buy the gear, and then go and spar with people with staff at the local school.

It would be almost zero overhead to TC to get started. Don’t know how many local schools would go for it, though.

But think about it, they’ve got the magazine to advertise it, they’ve got the videos, the gear. They probably even have seminar space someplace to put on the seminars.

So all it would require to test the idea would be to decide what to offer, then put up some ads and see if they get enough bites for it to be worthwhile.

10

[QUOTE=Oso;750613]not that one can’t learn a fair amount in that time but the more you really know the more you realize how much you really don’t.

:p[/QUOTE]

How very true, I realize that almost daily.

To me that is what a good teacher can offer. Teach you, get you to a certain level, and then reveal the next level so you see how much you don’t know but also to show you how what you’ve already learned can assist you in progressing.

Again, that was part of the problem with my old school. I got into good physical condition, I was stronger and more flexible than I had ever been, my cardio was great and I understood the basic principles and concepts. At one point I realized that my sifu could take me no further. All there was, was more forms but no real content. This sad realization still troubles me today, over a year later.

Of course, learning from video will not get me there either unless I obtain some level of enlightenment (not likely), but my expectations are not that high.

Eventually, maybe I’ll find another teacher but for now, I have to do something.

11

[QUOTE=neilhytholt;750629]Yeah, perhaps evil is too strong a word here.

They could try it small first. Like they could offer a TC certification program in something, Nine Continents staff applications, for example, which would only require TC to give seminars, and then the individual instructors could fly out, get certified, fly back and offer classes with TC sparring weapons, sparring shoes, and other gear.

It would be a total money maker for TC, because people could buy the TC media video, buy the gear, and then go and spar with people with staff at the local school.

It would be almost zero overhead to TC to get started. Don’t know how many local schools would go for it, though.

But think about it, they’ve got the magazine to advertise it, they’ve got the videos, the gear. They probably even have seminar space someplace to put on the seminars.

So all it would require to test the idea would be to decide what to offer, then put up some ads and see if they get enough bites for it to be worthwhile.[/QUOTE]
This is an interesting idea. Hmmmmmm.

First, there would have to be some kind of school or lineage association for credibility. A curriculum would have to be developed. The videos would then have to be produced if they were not already. As well as course information and reading materials. A schedule of seminars would need to be developed in order to support the curriculum. Housing accomodations would need to be made.

I think that some schools are already doing something like this.

Wing Lam comes to mind. So does Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. I think there is a series of Choy Lay Fut videos too but not sure if there is a school closely associated with them.

Like you said earlier, nothing beats the instruction of a good teacher. You know the old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will reveal himself. I guess I’m not ready yet.

12

[QUOTE=Chief Fox;750687]
Like you said earlier, nothing beats the instruction of a good teacher. You know the old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will reveal himself. I guess I’m not ready yet.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it’s necessarily the teacher. If you can find a teacher who does a lot of apps in class, then great, but there seem to be few that do these days especially with weapons.

If you have sombody to practice with that’s about your level that probably is the ideal situation for you. There’s two guys that I talked to a while back, Joseph Crandall and Jerry Alan Johnson who are pretty good bagua guys and supposedly they did a lot of training together to get good.

I’ve just never found anybody for a training partner who didn’t either try to force me to do their stuff due to their ego or turn training sessions into a social hour.

13

TC is not getting into the certification business

Personally, I couldn’t learn from a video now, even after writing over a hundred of them. I can barely learn directly from a live master. I’m just dense that way lately, or better put, just lazy. But when I was more on top of my game, I could certainly learn stuff off video. As long as you have enough of a foundation to build upon, you can learn from books, videos, even by watching snakes fight cranes. And in all honesty, I shouldn’t say I don’t learn off videos anymore. I try to learn from everything I see. Watching UFC has taught me never to get into a ring with an MMA dude (and to always carry a shiv when I can :wink: ). Ok, seriously, I do learn watching instructional videos, even if it’s by just getting exposed to a new style or a new form. I might not learn that form, but I still can learn something about it. It’s all a matter of degree.

14

Well, guess people will be stuck with MMA McDojos and Lkfmdc’s Sanshou/MMA program. LOL

15

With all due respect Chief…

[QUOTE=Chief Fox;750687]You know the old saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will reveal himself. I guess I’m not ready yet.[/QUOTE]
That’s a load of bull****. Is there a chance that if you sit around waiting to be “ready” someone will come along? Yes, of course. But it will likely have nothing to do with you being “ready”, it will probably just be luck. On the other hand, if you actively look for a teacher, the chances of you finding one increase greatly. And what is “ready” anyway? If you want to train, you want to train, period. Thats being ready. So my advice to you is to try to find what you want. Good luck.

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[QUOTE=The Xia;751224]That’s a load of bull****. Is there a chance that if you sit around waiting to be “ready” someone will come along? Yes, of course. But it will likely have nothing to do with you being “ready”, it will probably just be luck. On the other hand, if you actively look for a teacher, the chances of you finding one increase greatly. And what is “ready” anyway? If you want to train, you want to train, period. That’s being “ready”. So my advice to you is to try to find what you want. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

My recommendation is don’t rely on teachers. A lot of teachers have their own agenda which is separating you from your cash, not necessarily teaching you what you want.

17

[QUOTE=GeneChing;751157]Personally, I couldn’t learn from a video now, even after writing over a hundred of them. I can barely learn directly from a live master. I’m just dense that way lately, or better put, just lazy. But when I was more on top of my game, I could certainly learn stuff off video. As long as you have enough of a foundation to build upon, you can learn from books, videos, even by watching snakes fight cranes. And in all honesty, I shouldn’t say I don’t learn off videos anymore. I try to learn from everything I see. Watching UFC has taught me never to get into a ring with an MMA dude (and to always carry a shiv when I can :wink: ). Ok, seriously, I do learn watching instructional videos, even if it’s by just getting exposed to a new style or a new form. I might not learn that form, but I still can learn something about it. It’s all a matter of degree.[/QUOTE]

But dude, with your job and connections you have the ability to learn from a variety of teachers. For some of us who may not have teachers readily available because of financial resources or location, videos may be an option for a desperate time. Don’t get me wrong, an experienced teacher and training parters are best, but vids can be a great supplement.

18

job and connections

Yeah, you would think that. The truth of the matter is that I get exposed to a lot of masters (and even more charlatans) but I don’t really get the opportunity to train with them. It’s more show and tell than actual practice. And there’s this whole obligation thing. Sure, I can train with almost anyone in the area, but then I’m under this Confucian teacher/student obligation which has implicit conflict of interest issues.

Most of my job is really sitting on my arse, reading submissions (some good, most god-awful), trying to find a better deal on paper and shipping and printing, and of course, doing research (both martial and market). Oh, and then there’s monitoring this beastie of a forum. It’s not nearly as romantic as one might imagine.

Don’t get me wrong either - I totally support video training. It would be hard for me to do what I do - produce videos and such - if I didn’t believe in them. It’s just that personally for me, right now in my life, I can’t see learning a form from a video. Perhaps that’s an artifact from my job. There was a day when I could, but I’ve always been blessed by having good access to good teachers, so it seemed a little pointless.

Everyone needs to follow their own path with their training. You can’t let others dictate your path, especially not people on a web forum. You can follow a master. You can follow a video. You can follow a snake and crane. But these are all only signposts that direct you to follow what’s really important - your own path.

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[QUOTE=GeneChing;751335]
Most of my job is really sitting on my arse, reading submissions (some good, most god-awful), trying to find a better deal on paper and shipping and printing, and of course, doing research (both martial and market). Oh, and then there’s monitoring this beastie of a forum. It’s not nearly as romantic as one might imagine.[/QUOTE]
C’mon Gene, don’t spoil the fantasy that we all have of your job.

Picture this: Wavey lines blur into this scene.

Our own Gene Ching interviewing a Kung Fu Master via an awesome training session where the master bestows much wisdom.

A Sword Hottie enters with some new article submissions. Gene says, “just place those on my desk honey, you and I can go over those later.”.

She pulls out her sword and says, “Anything you say Mr. Ching.” and does a cool flipping sword cartwheel technique out the door.

A second sword hottie enters with some nachos. She says, “Your lunch is ready Mr. Ching.” Gene says, “thanks sweetie, you can put them on the table there”. She puts the nachos down, draws her sword looks at Gene and does some kind of cool/sexy twisting/flipping exit.

Later, the Got Qi girls show up for a photo shoot with Gene.

An intern approaches Gene and says “I have your laundry Mr. Ching.”. Gene inspects the laundry and says, “I said NO STARCH!” and delivers a devestating crotch kick to the intern.

Later the two sword hotties enter Gene’s office with a drink on a silver tray. The one sword hottie hands the drink to Gene, sits on his lap and says, “Hard day Mr. Ching?”. Gene takes a sip of his drink and says, “You have no idea sweetie, no idea.”. The other sword hottie begins to rub Gene’s back.

We pull back to blurry wavey lines.

You can’t spoil this fantasy Gene, you just can’t!

20

There was a sword hottie here yesterday…

…but no back rubs or drinks on silver trays. Maybe next time. I did indulge in nachos for lunch, just to celebrate the occasion. :wink:

Sword hotties are rare creatures. They should be put on the endangered list. I promise to work hard for the preservation of sword hotties. After all, it’s my job. :cool: