How long would you say it would take before you are able to use the Internal arts for self defense, and how long till you become a efficent/devasting fighter with them. How many hours of practice a week should you put into it to? Post how long you think it would take for each of the main internal arts (Taiji, bagua, Xingyi)
5 years, 3 months, and 26 days…or was it 1 & 1/2 years, 7 months, and 8 days…I can never remember which. Oh, for pete’s sake…read the handbook and find out for yourself!
On second thought, perhaps the idea of a definite specific time is absurd in the first place. Maybe asking the question that way isn’t really useful to begin with.
Nah…I’m pretty sure it’s 3 years, 4 months, and 19 days. Yep, that’s it…gotta be.
Took me about 8 months before I could fight better with taiji than without it.
Depends on who you plan on fighting, as well as how you train.
I’ve been doing Bagua for about 2 years, and training pretty steadily during that time. I put a lot of thought into how to apply technique. The thing about Bagua, is that lots of the techniques can be used effectively with or without utilizing internal power. Of course, they’re much more effective with the internal, but I’d say I could give most street punks a run for their money one on one. If you plan on utilizing it for NHB competitions or whatever, you’d best study another art. But I could be talking out my asss here. The learning curve has an x, y, and z axis with internal stuff, as with all martial arts. There is time (x), but there is also intensity (y), and quality (z). The way the three combine is what ultimately leads to mastery, and you can’t compensate for a lack of y and z by increasing x… Oh, screw it, Chris’ answer was better anyway.
The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. - Hagakure
In all seriousness, that question is so vague as to render any specific answer meaningless. There are so many variables at play, including individual definitions of what constitutes sufficient ability to defend oneself. Against whom? Against what kind of attack?
Generally, the internal arts have long been known for having the longest learning curve of all the martial arts. This is due to the small tolerances for error in the precise mechanics it takes to use the techniques of the neijia in an actual fight. Styles which rely on the external musculature as the primary source of power are far more forgiving and have a much larger margin of error.
With this in mind, the traditional ways that neijia are taught include lots and lots of hours logged doing nothing but basic structural work before one ever gets to see even a single useable application. Which means you might have 2 or 3 years of training and still not have learned anything at all about how to fight. The traditional way does have its obvious drawbacks, especially if one is needing realistic, useable, basic self-defense skills in any kind of a hurry. However, in the long run, the payoff is definitely there. While in the short run, the neijia student is at a distinct disadvantage compared to his external brethren, he may ultimately eclipse them as the “power band” of the internal arts starts to kick in.
Ultimately it’s a pretty considerable tradeoff, and should be given serious thought depending on each person’s needs. Personally, my solution to the problem of severly delayed, but superior skills is to 1) have a student learn either another, simpler art for a quick turnaround on the ability to defend his/her life, then either afterward or concurrently have them study an internal art, or 2) have them begin exclusively studying an internal art, but begin showing them very simple (or as I like to call them, “idiot proof”) applications from the art.
From a practical standpoint, the worst possible scenario is to study under a teacher who drills the student for years in only the forms, and then NEVER teaches any applications. IMO, this is irresponsible, arrogant and selfish on the part of the teacher, and it forces the student to re-invent the wheel with each succeeding generation.
There is some degree of controversy regarding the individual learning curves of the Three Sisters arts. However, it is generally accepted that Xing Yi Quan has the fastest turnaround on investment, at least as they all are traditionally taught.
I can’t really put a time frame on it, but just recently something clicked for me. Up until that point I think my use (or attempted use) of Hsing-I would have been detrimental in a fight. I have been studying for about 9 months now.
“There is no try…do, or do not.”
I think a better question might be, how long will it take before I am confident using my “insert martial art here” skills in a fight.
Depending on who asked me this question, I would probably give different answers. Any answer given is probably too general for this forum, but often you can watch a student and give them a fair guess at how long it will be before their body actually adapts to their training/practices ie. if they are practicing daily etc etc.
- Nexus
Like a skipping record…
“Master, how long will it take for me to learn your incredible fighting art.”
“10 years.”
“But I will train night and day, I will think about nothing but mastering you style, I will fight countless challanges and dedicate all I have to my studies. Then how long will it take?”
“20 years.”
when you have trained so hard
that contemplating a fight is just wasted past time, you might as well conserve your precious energy to help others
I think that one of things xingyi and bagua give you immediately is a nasty understanding of the fighting mentality. If you’re being taught by a combat-orientated instructor, you can’t help but feel how vicious and deadly the arts are. My “sparring-corrupted” attitude was gone withing a fortnight of bagua classes I reckon, and as soon as you’re willing to go for the kill you’re dangerous.
In some ways I think I was more dangerous in the first 6 months of my training than ever I have been since!
I have to agree with you there.
When I started thinking of the throat as my favored area to attack as opposed to one that was off-limits by the rules of friendly sparring, my fighting mindset really changed a lot.
Bagua is just so damn devious. Hsing-yi might create more vicious fighters, but Bagua can create really underhanded ones
The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. - Hagakure