Kids and uniforms

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=TenTigers;746749]

Ok, this one time at band camp…years ago, when I was an instructor, Personal Trainer at Bally’s/Jack laLanne one of the instructors hung his bathing suit on the hook in the showers and left it there-he said overnight. He put it on the next day before taking a swim and a jacuzzi, and ended up with crabs. He shaved his entire body. He is very, very Italian, meaning black, thick hair, all over his body. Total sweater. We told him he could have simply bought Quell.“Now you tell me?!” he sez. LOL. Do you have any idea what it looks (and probably feels) like when those hairs grow in? He looked like he was covered in splinters![/QUOTE]

Gym floors, showers, etc., are nasty. One thing about not going to martial arts schools anymore is a total avoidance of that crap. (Or should I say crab or clap? LOL)

22

let’s clarify that a bit for accuracy. TCMA didn’t have uniforms-until it was taught openly to the public. Then there were uniforms. We are only going back a few generations in traditional systems for this. Look at the old pics, theses schools had specific dress that was not street clothes. But military had uniforms. And DJ addresses the reasons for this in a Kung-Fu Gwoon as well.

23

Here, Oso, I got it.

Just keep a huge supply of T-shirts and require any kid that doesn’t have one to buy a new one to train in for $10 or something. Like Fen said, but not an entire new uniform, just the top.

$$$ for you, discipline for them. Everybody wins.

24

[QUOTE=TenTigers;746754]let’s clarify that a bit for accuracy. TCMA didn’t have uniforms-until it was taught openly to the public. Then there were uniforms. We are only going back a few generations in traditional systems for this. Look at the old pics, theses schools had specific dress that was not street clothes. But military had uniforms. And DJ addresses the reasons for this in a Kung-Fu Gwoon as well.[/QUOTE]

Well, I got pics back 80 years ago in a couple of lineages and guess what – no uniforms. A lot of time they trained in restaurants after closing and guess what – they wore whatever they had on.

I don’t know what you guys are talking about publicly … you mean after 1965 or something?

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[QUOTE=neilhytholt;746743]It’s pretty sad when people worry more about uniforms and talking about keeping people from learning just because of a uniform.

You know, why do you even bother teaching CMA?

Might as well just teach TKD. They got uniforms, they got forms, they got kickboxing sparring with big puffy gloves.[/QUOTE]

NOT!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

~Jason

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[QUOTE=neilhytholt;746748]I didn’t read ALL the posts … only up to David Jamieson’s communist uniform ego whatever … sorry for not going through every fricking response.

then stop replying to threads when you don’t know the entire context because you haven’t bothered to read everything.

This is just too sad. I guess it’s no wonder that most schools I wound up in had about 5 hardcore guys in them. Where’s Kung Fu San Soo when you need it? None of this teaching kid nonsense.

kids have been taught at least the basics of martial arts pretty much…forever.

Oh, well.

Here’s an idea … they come in without a uniform, they get painted green … that would be conformity. :)[/QUOTE]

ok, it’s not conformity, it’s the expectation of most every student and potential student that there is a uniform of sorts.

and DJ has a great point about the ego…it’s a tenet of buddhism and consequently wu de that ego be sublimated. that’s hard for most people at best.

CMA historically never had uniforms. People trained in their street clothes. The ‘kung fu’ uniform is just a bad imitation of Chinese street clothes.

correct, which is why we don’t use them…correction, we’ve used some in tournaments in the past but we’ve voted to stop since we don’t ever train in them.

however, I’m pretty sure that all those shoalin dudes wore specific color robes and shaved their heads for some reason…

…and, I think that there was a uniform of sorts at the chin woo/jing wu…

and, how far back must something go to be counted a tradtion? it’s certainly been a tradition in the US since the mid 70’s that frog tops be worn as a ‘kung fu’ uniform. and since there have been several articles and comments internationally about the US being the savior/repository of TCMA…we could validly create any tradtion we wanted. :stuck_out_tongue:

besides, jujitsu/judo/karate uniforms are really samurai underwears :smiley:

27

Anyways, you know what? A lot of you accuse me of saying stupid things.

Well you’re the ones watering down techniques, training for ‘character’ rather than self defense, wearing uniforms.

NONE of which were traditional in average training of CMA. Military and temples might have worn a ‘uniform’ but they wore a uniform ALL THE TIME. Like I said, they wore their street clothes. Even karate didn’t use uniforms until Funakoshi and modern karate 100 years ago.

It’s pretty obvious who here is saying the stupid things.

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[QUOTE=Oso;746759]

it’s certainly been a tradition in the US since the mid 70’s that frog tops be worn as a ‘kung fu’ uniform. and since there have been several articles and comments internationally about the US being the savior/repository of TCMA…we could validly create any tradtion we wanted. :stuck_out_tongue:

besides, jujitsu/judo/karate uniforms are really samurai underwears :D[/QUOTE]

I hate to think mid '70s counts as tradition. I thought tradition had to go through at least one generation.

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[QUOTE=neilhytholt;746760]Anyways, you know what? A lot of you accuse me of saying stupid things.

really? are you really such a megalomaniac that you don’t wonder why you constantly get told that?

Well you’re the ones watering down techniques, training for ‘character’ rather than self defense, wearing uniforms.

to an extent, you have a general point. but, considering you’ve never seen a class at my school…or probably anyone else’s on the forum…you don’t really know that specifically, do you? As far as kids go, you must have different standards than adults…I’ve been actively teaching kids for 12 years and have run accross only a handful that could be given the same standard of ‘correctness’ as an adult

NONE of which were traditional in average training of CMA. Military and temples might have worn a ‘uniform’ but they wore a uniform ALL THE TIME. Like I said, they wore their street clothes. Even karate didn’t use uniforms until Funakoshi and modern karate 100 years ago.

It’s pretty obvious who here is saying the stupid things.[/QUOTE]

yep…

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Contrary to what some are saying about this, I actually find that the people Ive encountered that place great importance on rank and uniform do so to feed their egos. Instead of caring about what they have martially, they identify with the uniform because it makes them feel that they are empowered by something bigger and place so much importance on the color of their belt because they feel it guarantees skill. That’s just something I have observed. Personally, I could care less about uniforms, belts, and stuff like that. If a good school has ranks and uniforms, I’ll comply. The fact of the matter is that most schools Ive seen use them. Even good schools use them for practical reasons. However, I’m there to train martial arts not to feel “special” and “cool” because I have a uniform and belt.
I can’t say I think it’s a good thing that parents care more about “discipline” then martial arts. That’s a mindset that mcdojos can and do capitalize on. But even good schools will rarely stay open on a ****genous population of serious martial artists so they cater to everyone to pay the bills. That’s just the way it is. I have nothing to complain about unless the quality of my instruction is lowered because of the school catering to others. If my instruction is as it should be, then there is no problem. So we have soccer moms that want martial arts schools to instill discipline in their kids. The uniforms make the soccer moms happy and keeps their checks coming in which helps keep the school open. Sure, I think parents should care about the martial arts their kids are getting and not “discipline”, but thats just not the way things are. If its a good school, theyll give the kids a good martial arts base even if they also give them the structure the parents want.

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[QUOTE=neilhytholt;746761]I hate to think mid '70s counts as tradition. I thought tradition had to go through at least one generation.[/QUOTE]

umm, how do you define a generation? it’s the mid 00’s…there’s tons of people that were students in the 70’s that are teaching students now…hell, I only got started in the early 80’s and I’m teaching…sounds like enough for 2 generations or more.

even genetically speaking, people born in the 70’s have kids now…

wow, I hate to be redundant but ‘there you go again’…

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Good post, Xia.

But, that begs the question: What do kid really need a martial art for?

To fight? Fighting is bad, right?

Self Defense?

Against another kid?

That’s ‘fighting’ as far as parents and schools are concerned; ‘bad’ again.

Against an adult?

Not going to happen.

Few children (<12) are ever going to beat an adult intent on harming them.

Self defense has nothing to do with physically defending oneself, that’s ‘fighting’. yes, yes, one assumes that SD is going to be taught in a martial arts school…but, that’s still another thread.

Sport? Ok, that one i’ll buy…I even like it. My own personal goal is to provide a place for children who don’t fit into the mold of the ‘Big 3’ sports to learn a physical skill that can make them feel good about themselves…and compete if they wish to.

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[QUOTE=The Xia;746764]Contrary to what some are saying about this, I actually find that the people Ive encountered that place great importance on rank and uniform do so to feed their egos. Instead of caring about what they have martially, they identify with the uniform because it makes them feel that they are empowered by something bigger and place so much importance on the color of their belt because they feel it guarantees skill.[/quote]

Can you say Kobra Kai? LOL

I can’t say I think it’s a good thing that parents care more about “discipline” then martial arts. That’s a mindset that mcdojos can and do capitalize on. But even good schools will rarely stay open on a ****genous population of serious martial artists so they cater to everyone to pay the bills. That’s just the way it is.

That’s because so-called ‘good schools’ usually wind up with only about 5 serious students, usually men, who are serious about fighting. The instructors either get old and retire, or start watering down the training so they can get more money.

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crap, it’s after 11…peace and g’night.

i’m missing snuggle time with the old lady…:cool:

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[QUOTE=Oso;746770]crap, it’s after 11…peace and g’night.

i’m missing snuggle time with the old lady…:cool:[/QUOTE]

Anyways, I shouldn’t give you a hard time about uniforms or teaching kids. Somebody’s gotta do it.

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[QUOTE=Oso;746765]umm, how do you define a generation? it’s the mid 00’s…there’s tons of people that were students in the 70’s that are teaching students now…hell, I only got started in the early 80’s and I’m teaching…sounds like enough for 2 generations or more.

even genetically speaking, people born in the 70’s have kids now…

wow, I hate to be redundant but ‘there you go again’…[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I just gotta stop talking on here again.

Bottom line is uniforms are more important to you than martial arts, so you might as well just carry spare T-shirts and charge them when they forget it.

37

IMO, try using the carrot instead of the stick.

Have a ‘special’ form that only the kids in uniform get to learn, while the other kids have to face the other way and do basics with another instructor. Make sure to make the special form look really cool when youre making it up :stuck_out_tongue:

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[QUOTE=neilhytholt;746771]Anyways, I shouldn’t give you a hard time about uniforms or teaching kids. Somebody’s gotta do it.[/QUOTE]

heh, ‘thanks’.

Yeah, I just gotta stop talking on here again.

Bottom line is uniforms are more important to you than martial arts, so you might as well just carry spare T-shirts and charge them when they forget it.

you’re just sad, dude.

very, very sad

sunfist, I have to disagree with that. You don’t reward people for doing the minimum requirements.

39

lose the uniforms and sashes
just make them wear simple practical clothes

problem solved

40

Oso,

Our policy is like yours is that the kids must have their uniform for class.
However I make it easy to enforce the policy by giving the parents a choice.
The student can sit and watch class so that they may learn from observation…
or the parents can purchase a new uniform so their kid can participate that day.

The kids can forget their sash for the day but they must do 25 push ups as a reminder to bring it.

I have found that parents are very supportive of our policies and that the ones that don’t like it still adhere to them. if they don’t well… there’s always other places for them to train.

Joe Mantis