My kicks are weak and lame and slow and all that stuff you don’t really want in a technique. But, while futzing about today, I found something that I think might work ok for me.
Starting with the right foot back, come around for a low roundhouse, aiming at the side of the knee or calf with the top of the foot, toe pointed. If the target is moved so the kick misses, instead of following through with a 360 turn*, bend and lift the knee to chamber and immediately transition to a side kick at belly or face. Does this sound practical and/or potentially effective to you?
*it’s entirely possible that the reason I’m able to prevent myself from turning completely around after a low roundkick is that my low round kick is too slow and weak to do any damage even if it connects.
Personally, I don’t like to go for multiple kicks, unless in a jump or in different directions.
I prefer to kick low and than close immediately for a follow up.
As for weak kicks that can be due to a number of factors.
Hip position, leg too straight or too bent, off-balance and compensating with the upper body for it, etc.
That can work - I have used it before. Make sure you train it so that you can chamber and fire out the sidekick quickly.
Another nice move that I watched a kickboxer use once was when his front leg got kicked from the outside, he allowed his front leg to go with the kick and spin him around, then planted it and fired a sidekick out with the other leg. He did it so smoothly and the other guy didn’t knwo what hit him.
My legs are fine, they’re just not used to kicking, is all. Ch’ang taiji has a lot of shuai chiao in it, so I’m used to using them for sweeps and lifts and stuff.
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice My legs are fine, they’re just not used to kicking, is all. Ch’ang taiji has a lot of shuai chiao in it, so I’m used to using them for sweeps and lifts and stuff.
CSN.
Can you pm me on how your styles ties in with the other 5 mainstyles and what are the main differences that make yours separate.
As I understand it, the taiji I learned is pretty much my teacher’s own flavor. I used to think it was the same as Ch’ang Tung Sheng’s, but I have learned more now. As best I’m able to piece it together, the guy that taught me learned Yang style in Taiwan, then came to the US and learned Shuai Chiao from John Wang. Being more comfortable with the reactive/sensitive nature of taiji but mindful of the effectiveness of the more traditionally aggressive SC, he developed a long form that suited him, and in addition to the combination of Yang with SC that GM CTS invented, he mixed in the silk reeling and short power methods he’d picked up from various Chen guys he’d also played with and learned from.
I can’t say if this helps at all, and sorry I didn’t PM it, but maybe it’s relevant to the thread, so I’m putting it here.
My last style also was a modified style that my teacher studied in taiwan, funnillly enough on of my fellow students studied under the same guy in Taiwan only 35yrs apart.
Sounds like your teacher tried to re-incorporate a lot of the old Chen stuff back into his forms.
If your legs are strong then you just need to work on your mechanics. Key objectives would be to develop transfer of force, balance, and arrival in a position that does not compromise your defense. The followup with a sidekick is a good option, but understand that in application this sidekick is not planned, ynwmsaying? It is simply your awareness of your offensive weapons and targets that enables you to take advantage of opportunities to damage the opponent when they present themselves to you. Tactically speaking, rolling the dice there is a chance that you would use that combination, it has come up in sparring.
To summarize (necessary, given my writing style tonight) –
you throw the sidekick because your back is turned and you have the right distance for a sidekick. So we find that a combo is not in fact a combo. It is two distinct techniques. All strikes are opportunistic and spontaneous. Much development goes into being able to battle with this level of oneness with the motion. Quite ironically, IMO, one of the foundations that you need to acheive your oneness with the spontaneousness of the possibilities, is repetition repetition repetition. And furthemore, it is wize to maximize your practice by perfecting the techniques both individually, and as parts of combinations reflecting the highest probability of occurence. So the move is good for 1 move in a single form, you can practice it while shadowboxing, but as for sparring or fighting, you should just let it flow, and it will come out if necessary. OTOH, if you are exposing your back because of one kick that was apparently a whiff, and don’t have good side or back kicking skills, then don’t bother with that first kick until you are better at kicking, or just train a different approach not involving a wide swinging round kick from that particular vector.
Raatra
the 360 turn around is supposedly when you “commit” to the technique with so much force so that it drives you full circle if you were to miss. the object is to hit the target. I dont like the 360 business cause it leaves you in a dangerous position. unless i suppose you follow through with a well executed back kick, or outside crescent, sweep or backfist or whatever was suggested earlier.
sometimes it makes more sense to cut the circle and go straight into a side kick. but it depends on who youre fighting.
BTW, practice of a raised-knee “bird” stance is essential to good kicking, IMO. If you can do 2 minutes each side then you are cooking. What I mean is that your kicks will become useful, not that you won’t want to develop them further, of course you will. Also I think you should be able to kick a minimum of 500 kicks total (combined) for both legs. The kicks being of any type, not all of them have to involve a snapping of the knee.
Ooh ooh oh - check this out – for training your side kick as well as high round kick, try to balance on you base leg in the actual postion from which the kick will be delivered, lean, pull your leg up and turn the hip over 90 degrees, bend the raised leg at the knee and grab your ankle with your lead hand. The other hand can be held in a fist. If you clench your fist, you will improve your ability to balance.
It is very difficult at first, but like riding a bike, you figure it out. No cheating by holding onto the wall or furniture with the rear hand. If your going to do that, then take your hand off of your raised ankle and do slow horizontal kicks. That with hit your side raising muscles for the legs pretty well and improve your balance.
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice Starting with the right foot back, come around for a low roundhouse, aiming at the side of the knee or calf with the top of the foot, toe pointed. If the target is moved so the kick misses, instead of following through with a 360 turn*, bend and lift the knee to chamber and immediately transition to a side kick at belly or face.
In Northern Shaolin, we have a very similar move. The difference is that the initial technique is a standing sweep rather than a low roundhouse. Otherwise, it is identical.
Since adding the roundhouse to my own arsenal, I have observed many techniques using the standing sweep and found that the work well for the low round kick, too. The good thing about it is that if the first kick hits, the follow-up sidekick is even more devastating. I haven’t had many chances to try it, but I’ll be sparring a lot more often in the coming months, so I’ll get back to you guys on that soon.
hmmm, never thought that turning 360 after a missed kick was a good idea either.
that combo is a great one, ime. after the ‘missed’ kick an opponent will often close distance and you can catch them with the side kick to good effect.
I like wall assisted kicks for training. get in a horse facing a wall and rest your hands on it. I do sides, rounds, hooks, backs and rear thrusts from here, both sides. It takes the balance factor out of it but you can then focus on power, speed and height. Not that balance is the least of those but try it with 25-50 of each kick, each side as fast and as high as you can go.
This combo is actually taught in our sparring techniques. We have several sweep to kick combos. I use it often and find its successful more often than it is not. I prefer using a sweep instead of the low round house because you can still throw the sweep with enough force to take them down without putting yourself in an ackward position if you miss.
That combo will work, yeah. I use it myself when I miss a low round kick. It works out well because the person evading the round kick frequently wants to close distance after you miss. So a good straightline followup like the sidekick can catch them as them come in. And your hips are already pretty well set up for it, as you’ve partially turned your back on him by missing the round kick anyway.
Works particularly well if you put a slight downward angle on the round kick. Your foot finishes the arc, comes right down into position to be fired off again.
If you try this out, give us a report on how it goes, yeah?
