[QUOTE=Lucas;885719]ive seen karate guys put the beat down on kungfu guys
[/QUOTE]
Never happened.:mad:
I started with Tae Kwon Do in the early 70’s at 15, had a ball. American GI class, taught by a Korean Diplomat, 6th Dan. No vests or headgear, tough enough, yet controlled enough. Disciplined.
My kung fu training still draws on that training. A couple of kicks, some residual flexibility beyond my due. But, most importantly, it gave me ring craft, something often discussed as missing from Kung Fu training. Copping king hits, nuts, windings, ring dynamics, intimidation. It gave me an edge, to begin with.
Lots it didn’t cover though, evil, lethal spirit, just for an example…
Sorry, I still have to come down on the side that says Big School Karate (at least as compared to my experience with Tae Kwon Do) isn’t as evolved as Kung Fu, in that it is by definition, devolved and standardised for consistency.
That standardisation has brought rewards, and kudos.
But, Kung fu has a complexity that goes beyond karate skills, IMHO, if you put in the extra time.
I see Karate having a lot more appeal to younger people, and Kung fu being a more mature alternative. Karate is much more athletic and from my experience, fitness was much more integrated. That’s a killer. Not everybody is a time machine like Knifefighter.
Of course, some Kung Fu is falling into the Big School Karate category these days and some Karate, is reaching back to traditional character, like, Kenpo?
So, it really doesn’t fall into karate being lower level than kung fu, just the fact that some arts are move evolved than others, and more of the Karate Schools are devolved by design for consistency.
What are you saying? Are you saying the Kungfu is the bridge from Karate to the true gheyness that is taichi??
Because I get that. lol
yeah, karate sucks balls.
For example of this ball-suckage, all the Isshinryu schools I’ve worked out with/am a part of, have required full-contact, full-range (that includes throws and ground-fighting, if you know jiu jitsu. And if you don’t, you learn it) sparring at all rank levels, encouraged working out with as many people as possible, and focused on using kata as a means to develop movement potential, and NOT as the only way to true bad-assery.
Most of the kung fu schools in my area I’ve contacted w/r/t sparring feel it is not safe nor is it advantageous to the student; injuries are all too common, and it’s just too darn dangerous (deadly?)
I’m in the Shreveport, La area, and no, have not contacted all the available schools. I know of at least one that is a very good school, recommended by many of my karate seniors.
Is it low-level? I care. I grow more athletic, more self-aware, and more able to defend myself with every workout. What my art, my way of life, is perceived as by a group who chooses to not test every facet of their art matters to me nil.
From the posters on this board, it’s plainly obvious that sensation, that knowledge, is of the minority.
There is not a technique in my basics, in my kata, that I have not applied against a skilled, resistant partner in my training or in my life. Can you say that about your art?
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;885912]
So, it really doesn’t fall into karate being lower level than kung fu, just the fact that some arts are move evolved than others, and more of the Karate Schools are devolved by design for consistency.[/QUOTE]
“Devolved” into what, and from what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh0Ogbet-a4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUMPjddzZc
I’ve been in martial arts for 19 years, and I am **** proud to have spent the past eight as part of Okinawa karate.
[QUOTE=Vash;885935]“Devolved” into what, and from what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh0Ogbet-a4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUMPjddzZc
I’ve been in martial arts for 19 years, and I am **** proud to have spent the past eight as part of Okinawa karate.[/QUOTE]
thats good that you have been training 19 years with pride, but the only thing i don’t get is that you have been training for so long and you still don’t realize that no matter what, people are going to bash on other styles no matter what they train. kung fu bashes karate, karate bashes kung fu. who gives a crap! i haven’t been training nearly as long as you have but i see that, thats what it is. people will bash to keep pride of them selves. i respect anyone who puts there heart into training, doesn’t matter what style. unfortunately there are bad schools with fraud masters and etc. i enjoy every martial arts, but i can say even some moves from karate that seems so ehhh whatever nothing special to the eye, i enjoy learning the philosophy of it, reasoning to behind the technique. kung fu vs karate, catholic vs Jewish religion, w.e. if something was so perfect we would all be doing it.
I’m an Issin-Ryo man myself. You know the opening for the first few major forms… knees closed in, closs the arms low… like you were blocking a front kick to the groin?
Was taught a really cool way to break the double unders, sinking the weight and crossing the arms the same way. From there you can go to a standard arm drag.
I know believe this is the true intention of that form move.
[QUOTE=southern pwr;885940]thats good that you have been training 19 years with pride, but the only thing i don’t get is that you have been training for so long and you still don’t realize . . . [/QUOTE]
. . . shhhhhh. vash always realizes. always.
vash is like chuck norris on baby fetus stem cell steroids with that realization sh1t.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;885941]I’m an Issin-Ryo man myself. You know the opening for the first few major forms… knees closed in, closs the arms low… like you were blocking a front kick to the groin?
Was taught a really cool way to break the double unders, sinking the weight and crossing the arms the same way. From there you can go to a standard arm drag.
I know believe this is the true intention of that form move.[/QUOTE]
Those first few sets in Isshin are actually from Goju.
there’s only really one Isshin kata the rest of the content of the style is shorin and goju
[QUOTE=southern pwr;885940]thats good that you have been training 19 years with pride, but the only thing i don’t get is that you have been training for so long and you still don’t realize that no matter what, people are going to bash on other styles no matter what they train. kung fu bashes karate, karate bashes kung fu. who gives a crap! i haven’t been training nearly as long as you have but i see that, thats what it is. people will bash to keep pride of them selves. i respect anyone who puts there heart into training, doesn’t matter what style. unfortunately there are bad schools with fraud masters and etc. i enjoy every martial arts, but i can say even some moves from karate that seems so ehhh whatever nothing special to the eye, i enjoy learning the philosophy of it, reasoning to behind the technique. kung fu vs karate, catholic vs Jewish religion, w.e. if something was so perfect we would all be doing it.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there’s always been and always will be trash-talking between groups of people. That doesn’t mean, though, that we can’t discuss the issues at the heart of the differences.
[QUOTE=GunnedDownAtrocity;885965]. . . shhhhhh. vash always realizes. always.
vash is like chuck norris on baby fetus stem cell steroids with that realization sh1t.[/QUOTE]
I heard one time GDA headbutted a ram so hard, it offered him oral sex and a turkey-on-wheat sandwich.
True story.
[QUOTE=Vash;885924] have required full-contact, full-range (that includes throws and ground-fighting, if you know jiu jitsu. And if you don’t, you learn it) sparring at all rank levels, encouraged working out with as many people as possible, and focused on using kata as a means to develop movement potential, and NOT as the only way to true bad-assery.
[/QUOTE]
This is also Good TCMA. Ground fighting is new to both karate and kung fu. Good instructors incorporate some.
Isshin-ryu is a great system, many things that it incorporated were considered “revolutionary” - Vertical thumb on top of fist, blocking with the muscle of the forearm, higher stances to name a few.
Of course Shimabuku was also a great teacher and very well liked, he also use to demo power by driving 8" nails though wood with knife hand strikes and his makiwara was like 4" thick !
Personally I think that, in regards to grappling, the GnP is ideal for the typical striking MA and that submission work should be taught later on.
Most strikers catch on to the GnP and “dirty clinch work” far quicker than they do going into a “grappling” context.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;885971]Those first few sets in Isshin are actually from Goju.
there’s only really one Isshin kata the rest of the content of the style is shorin and goju[/QUOTE]
There’s two forms I’d like to go over with my sensei because I forger parts of them. The first is the one that starts off with three horse stances and tensed breathing (I also learned a sai form of a similar pattern) and one which was very kung fu like, stepiping back with double knife hands down in front followed by crane beaks up, palms out, then beaks down.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;886000]Isshin-ryu is a great system, many things that it incorporated were considered “revolutionary” - Vertical thumb on top of fist, blocking with the muscle of the forearm, higher stances to name a few.[/QUOTE]
My Issin-Ryu is funny. I grew up with the thumb locked across the folded fingers and favored the reverse punch.
Later in college, in the Issin-Ryu club taught by a Jersey City cop, I was taught to hold the fist other way and they favored straight blast, somewhat like Win Chun.
I was like, what’s up with this tool? He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Later I was at a book store or online and learned he was right, traditional Issin-Ryu is that way. I still favor my hand grip and the reverse punch. I think it lands heavier.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;886019]My Issin-Ryu is funny. I grew up with the thumb locked across the folded fingers and favored the reverse punch.
Later in college, in the Issin-Ryu club taught by a Jersey City cop, I was taught to hold the fist other way and they favored straight blast, somewhat like Win Chun.
I was like, what’s up with this tool? He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Later I was at a book store or online and learned he was right, traditional Issin-Ryu is that way. I still favor my hand grip and the reverse punch. I think it lands heavier.[/QUOTE]
Probably perception Ray, we tend to use what is more comfortable for Us.
Many studies have shown that how you hold the first and even the contact surface is not that crucial, it just a preference thing.
know of any good karate schools in the portland area?
I know there is a kyokushin dojo in Beaverton, not sure about Portland though.
ugh…im one of those crazy 30 year olds that never bothered to get a license to drive…im getting a motorcycle soon though, so maybe getting outside portland wont be so much of a pain then
For Ray-
Shimabuku performing sanchin kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFeWJRRm4Qk
Shimabuku performing Seisan Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyUMPjddzZc&feature=related
Shimabuku performing Naihanchi Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQujMVkO00&feature=related
Shimabuku performing Chinto Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw0T6jekfMs&feature=related
Shimabuku performing Wansu Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxpvKUnd0g&feature=related