Jim Lacy is a FRAUD! Here is a little proof.

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
21

Wai and Lacy

Dale, you need to learn how to write. Taking everything personally is just the reason “no name” posts are done. To protect you from getting into trouble with your **** poor attitude, bad temper, and protect those who have loved ones and assests to protect from psychos like you, go look for trouble and you’ll end up like Jim, in a cell, tough guy. This is not ancient China and your threats of violence are disrespectful to your Kwoon and might just get you more than you bargained for. Show your Sifu your responses, he’d love your chest thumping, violence and a big mouth, thats all you have. Lacy’s Lohons and dedicated students have taken the art to another level, they are trying to legitimize and make it into something and deserve credit. They are out there producing quality material, other than threats, what have you done to contribute ? I must have touched a nerve, you seem upset, this is not personal, it is factual and you do not know all of the facts, maybe I don’t either, but I don’t “call out” people because they disagree with me. Or turn everything into an insult.

22

I saw a Bizz. card in a witchcraft shop,it was a guy on Signal Mt.(next to Chattanooga) that teaches tennis and claims to be one of Lacy’s Lohons,I lost the card,just what we need,more kung-fu wanna-be friut loops.

23

Damn, you are paranoid. Are you sure your not Spatz or Lacy???

Kwandao,

When did I ever say it would get violent? You seem to run at the mouth when you go off on your tangents that Lacy and his lohons are making strides. They are not. It has been the saddest day in CMA history when they ever printed the first word from Jim Lacy and his supposed 18 Daoist Palms system. He and his “students” are spreading more than their share of lies and misinformation.

I think you better look at the material you claim to have in your possession. Its does not exist.

Go look for it and see what you find. Nothing. At least we have a real master who treats people and asks for very little in return. The reason Jim and his “lohons” are doing okay is they are willing to sell anything at any cost. Take a look at Lee Spatz who is still claiming to be a white tiger nerve hitting expert. Stinks of pure swindle to me.

Jim shouldnt be giving out those formulae as some of the herbs can kill you at rather minute quantities. What am I talking about here, Kwandao?

Im halfway through my masters in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. How about you and your years of Karate and Korean arts. Why is it that there are so many like you who can train the violent side and totally ignore the other side of martial arts, the healing arts which compliment it and then contribute to one’s power in the fighting arts. But then you have been deluded by your fantasies of granduer of being a martial art master and not a master of martial arts. There is a BIG difference.

I was taught that if you have no skills at healing than you suck at your Gung Fu, no matter what.

I am not spouting anything violent. You are a coward and try and paint a picture of me that has no basis. I am not making this personal, you are and you keep ribbing me like I’m going to crack or something. No chance, Jimbo’s clown, as my training helps me to get over that kind of stress. It’s business to rid the world of the fakes and frauds that seem to haunt most walks of life in this great nation of ours. Call me the new martial arts “Randi” who wants to see more people put their money where their mouth is, and you Kwandao, no name fool, are tops on that list to show me and my friends involved what you can or in your case, what you obviously cannot do.

Im not out here being the strongarm for anyone but myself. I have been censored before, but that is due to old tradiations. I dont care if I **** my teachers off this time. Jim always said to put up or shut up. So are you mature enough for that. Or are you another one to go hide behind the apron???

This is a public forum and I have no problems letting all know what is going on with this. Obviously you cannot deal with that. And you skirt around the issues I keep presenting to you.

Stop circumlocuting and get to your point, oh I forgot, you never had one in the first place. You are just out to stroke the Lacy/18 Daoist Palms ego.

For the last few months I have been busy emailing and writing all the people that are listed with addresses. It’s a great scam when the people who are supposed to be the backbone of the system are not available to anyone other than Jim. So where are all you people that are supposed to come get me for sicking on your Jung Shee???

Kwandao, you seem to be getting angry at me for trying to settle this the OLD SCHOOL way. I repeat for the record that I challenge You, Jim, and ANY or ALL of the lohons to a contest of their choice. It can be breaking(no baking allowed) and or forms being performed. Or it can be where the men strive to compete, in the ring with any and all of you.

Putting your name up and an email address is all I ask. No one is going to come get. You cannot seem to rid yourself of that idea.

I’m still here waiting to hear from someone in the 18 Daoist Palms system to answer to the direct and public challenge to their lies and falsehoods,

Dale Dugas :smiley:

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>
Outproduce Lacy, make better superior material, not one tape-18 Daoist Palms Fist Form, do ten or twenty
[/quote]

From Lacy’s site:
“Whenever our competitors actually put their two-person forms into a product priced as good as Panther, we will absorb their tidbits back into the 18 Daoist Palms System. If they let their stuff out we will absorb and still dominate the market on five elder information.”

Hmm…I think not, but nice try.

25

Oh, it;'s Doctor Dale, now

Can’t you write without insulting anyone, Doctor?
I think that you are a dangerous flake, First you want to fight everyone with your “challenges”, now you’ll challenge everyone to a forms competition. UH, here’s a challenge…write just once without blowing up or lashing out like a child. Can you ? Mr Pilgrim, who I respect for voicing his opinion without having to resort to bashing everyone and issuing challenges to “cross hands”. Sorry, Mr Pilgrim, I apologize for dragging you into this. You see, Dale, that is what it is all about, humility, which you do not have. Only rudeness. You still have not said what you study, maybe you have a TCM cure for your split personality. Being anonymous is not cowardly, you are irrational and that spells danger. If I spouted like you, my Sifu would break his foot off in my rear. Can you respond without threats, Doctor ? And what does Lee Spatz have to do with anything ? I do not know him or have I seen his material, I have seen his site,
but thats all, I can’t comment on him, but you can Doctor? That the difference, you just hate anyone who thinks differently than you and voices their opinion. You and your little cult had better realize that this is America and creeps like you are hatemongers. By this time next year, lets see where you are at, it is a marathon, not a sprint, Doctor Mouth. Have a good night, Dale.

26

Respect?

Please don’t respect me, cause I respect Dale. I do not know who you are, and won’t bother guessing, but NO ONE I’ve ever met would actually say that they think Lacy and/or his students have ANYTHING of value to offer the world other than someone directly affiliated with the man with a financial stake in the matter.
What you call paying homage is actually shameless name dropping…Where would Jim be if he did not drop GM Doo’s name at every opportunity? Where would he be if he had to stand on his own two legs, his crippled hip would give way and he would be writhing on the ground, that’s where.
Lacy and GM Doo NEVER had a student/teacher relationship. Lacy has admitted this. Lacy’s knowledge comes from demo tapes that he stole. I have asked the question before and it begs repeating, If Lacy was a student of GM Doo for 10 years (as he claims) then where did all the Kempo come from???

27

Kwandao

Kwandao, It is obvious that you have somewhat of an inferiority complex. You seem to circumvent and ignore relevent points by both Dale and Billy Pilgram.

The fact is, buying stolen material is wrong. Prentending to teach something you don’t know is wrong. Dale and Billy make very good points, but you ignore them to spout off gibberish.

By the way, WHAT Korean and Japanese styles have you had FORMAL training in, specifically. You seem to let us know at every opportunity, please share.

You say you have what, 30 years experience in the arts, but seem to have a surpisingly narrow view, when speaking of Lacy. Even 2 year students of other styles can tell that Lacy is bogus. Why do you insist on defending him? Who were your teachers? Did they teach you nothing of ethics, honor, or common sense? It seems the only thing they taught you might be technique.

Please share your answers as we anxiously await your wisdom.

Sincerely,
Charles

28

Billy, we seem to have another misinformed fool here

Kwandao,

There is no real self enlightenment when you are training to take someones face off with a tiger claw. You spout things that have no real foundation in the conversations we attempt to have via this board. You seem to float between trying to think and trying to speak while you attempt to write intelligent conversation. Focusing would help allviate that problem.

“Im a dangerous flake” is a good one coming from someone who is “challenging” me to write something that is not childish. The readers know who has been acting childish. I don’t lash out nor do I bash anyone who does not deserve a good bash. I also accept being bashed in the process. I don’t shirk away from any confrontations, verbal or physical. That does not make me a flak, Kwandao. Just OLD SCHOOL.

Things in this nation have degraded to a point that if one does not conform to some form of political correctedness then you are labeled subversive and violent. Why? Because I won’t sit back and not attempt to defend an art and the man who singlehandedly brought it to this nation?

No. I will not let this happen. It is that simple. Too many people can say what they want about their system. I am proud to be a supporter of Bak Fu Pai and Jung Shee Doo Wai. I do not recognize Jim Lacy for anything other than what he is. A fool and a liar.

I have no split personality, though you are showing sure signs of it in your postings here on this board. I can spout all I want, as you yourself can do as well. If someone wants to punish me that then I deserve everything I get from my shifu. But I will still sit up and yell while there are people like you who sit back and go on with the foolishness you have been doing.

You are something of an enigma, Kwandao. I’m no doctor and being halfway through a masters doesn’t make you anything other than another grad student trying to complete his degree. A person who uses the term Doctor usally has a PhD or MD, or DMD, or DDS, DVM after their name. So please do not confuse the readers by claiming I said I was a doctor. That never happened.

I just have a little more experience using Chinese medicine than the next person. That’s all.

I do not hate anyone other than fools who cannot stand up and take responsibility for their actions. I seem to be able to do that along with many others. You seem not able to do this. I agree to disagree with anyone and anything. Nothing wrong in that. Respect us to be earned and I have earned it from the people who give it to me as they have earned my respect for them from me directly.

I am not a hatemonger. I attended Earlham College from 1985-1989. It is a Quaker School in Richmond, Indiana. Not many hatemongers would go to such a school. You do know what Quakerism is about, don’t you?

I have studied Uechi-Ryu Karate under Jack Summers here in the Boston area when I was a teenager. I then trained in Hung ga kung fu and then went to college where I trained with my roomie and we had fun beating the snot out of each other while we studied Japanese. I graduated in 1989 and immediately moved to Japan where I would train in Aikido, Judo and Karate while working for the local Board of Education.

I returned to the US to pursue my masters degree in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. I had to quit that to take care of my father who had been injured on the job and had a brain injury. I am finally reapplying to finish my degree as you read this.

I doubt most people would now classify me as a dangerous risk as you so state in your last post.

I am not a member of any cult, not am I a member of organized religion in any way, shape or form.
I will be in school next year and hopefully will be finished in a half year more after that.

You will be somewhere as well, doing whatever it is you do.

Again, Jim started this with this “Put up or Shut Up”. I want to see him and you and the other people who claim to be his people to come out and show us what you can or cannot do.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

29

ahhh turiyan you poor deluded child…

just had a look at your website… its a shocker.

i think you need to go do a little more research - maybe understand what you are writing instead of just trying to duplicate things you have heard or read… you have confused some of you terms and its really not coherent. i only bothered reading half of the front page - i can only take so much bs in a day. your not doing much for your credibility are you? gee, pro-lacy seems like a good move :smiley:

keep up the good fight guys (charles, dale & billy). im not going to get any further into this because its not my place & i dont want to cause trouble… just letting you know that i think youre doing a good thing.

blessed be,
a.

30

Thanks for the kind words

Bastet,

Thanks for the kind words. Its good to know that there are some people who are not fooled by the amount of words someone can use to mislead and conjole you into thinking about something.

I really dont expect to hear back from the stick himself. Though keep looking, you never know when the troll will show up again.

Drop a line when the urge hits. Would love to hear more about your style and training.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

31

feltup you must really hate jim lacy,what did he play with you in the locker room or something?

32

sui-few (too little)

Wow! You’re a funny guy! Ever thought of stand-up work?

Seriously, if you had read the previous messages you would understand. Lacy has a long history of being a con man and a thief. Unfortunately, I have personally dealt with him. We’re just rying to make sure others don’t make the same mistake. I take the arts seriously and DO have ethics, unlike Lacy.

On the other hand, if you did read and are just being a smart a**, go play somewhere else. Please. :smiley:

33

sui few aren’t you Chinese living in HK? Well then, it is obvious to you that Lacy is another western kempo parasite trying to make a buck of CMA through deceit and treachery. Seems like you’d be anti-Lacy or not at all…

Kwandao, aside from happenstantially choosing the famous weapon of Vince Pepper’s self proclaimed namesake, claims 10yrs JMA and 3(!) in CMA in his profile, then it becomes 26yrs and 5 in CMA when pressed. (Although it is ridiculous to pay any attention to the pointless and insolent opinions of a 3yr CMA newbie and no one is going to leave 26yrs in JMA and KMA for Jim Lacy tapes(hahaha). I’m just saying some folks express opinions and at the same time show they have no respect for what is true and resort to what is NOT rather quickly…

I submit that, after hearing from the Bak Fu Pai that Lacy is Officially nothing but a CONMAN and SCAMMER, peeps remain on his side, or ambivolent to the situation because they R-1-2…

Kudos to Charles for doing the right thing as soon as he found out the truth!

34

Fuboken

Thank you, just doing the right thing. Others don’t seem to know what the right thing is though…

Charles :confused:

35

Fubokuen, are you “Fubo” from a few years ago? We exchanged a few emails talking smack about Lacy :stuck_out_tongue: My email address was different then, and I think my old screen name here was, too.

Iron

36

The Real White Tiger


I too believe in exposing frauds, bouncing up to the top :smiley:

37

excuse me but most m.a’s are cons what makes you so different?do you teach for free?

38

Do you?

If so, please post the address of your school, I’d love to learn. Isn’t it nice being anonymous?

If you say accepting payment for teaching makes one a con, well, then, so be it, I don’t agree, but you’re entitled to your opinions however misguided they may be.
But equating anyone with Lacy by virtue of this, is just down right silly…Go back and read over the other posts to get a clearer picture of who this guy is (and what he isn’t) before lumping everyone in the same boat with him.
An educated perspective will save you a lot of face in the future, but as long as you remain in the shadows, I guess that’s not something you’ll have to worry about.

David Russ

39

Sui Fuw, what the hell are you talking about?

You think that all people invloved are cons? Where the hell did you get that idea? Thats a really good thing to be spouting off about ona martial arts site.

Get real, Sui Fuw. Not all people are out to get anothers money or fame or any of the other trappings in life that can make you do some stupid crap. Some people actually train for other reasons.

Nothing wrong with having a school and trying to make a living. Though there is something wrong with trying to lie about your system and material and then fleece people for crap that is not what it was told to be. That’s what is going on here with all this.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

40

North Star! Cool Picture! You are correct, those are the REAL Deal…

Siu Few,

You are either Lacy, a follower trying to create decention, or a child. That is a VERY weak arguement. What’s the mattter, all of the mounting proof too much to deny? :rolleyes:

Billy, Dale, and others, Thanks for the support!

Sincerely,
Charles
Bak Fu Pai