Just wondering…does anyone know of a distinctively “Japanese” rendition of Wing Chun?
The Japanese are very good at taking something “foreign” and adapting it for themselves. Chan Buddhism became Zen in Japan. White Crane Kung Fu became Karate. Chinese Acupuncture was adapted to a distinctive Japanese version. Thai Boxing was adapted into Japanese Kickboxing. Western catch-wrestling was adapted to Japanese Pro wrestling and MMA. And need I mention the automotive industry?
Just wondering if Wing Chun has any kind of following in Japan and how it may have been “adapted” if it does.
Western catch-wrestling was adapted to Japanese Pro wrestling and MMA.
There was really a fair bit of traffic in both directions, with Ju Jitsu and Judo influencing the West as well.
I don’t know much about Japanese WC … I did visit a Xingyi school in Tokyo in the days I was doing that. I saw some decent Xingyi, but not really any “Nipponification”.
No to derail the discussion, but maybe you folks would find this interesting:
Japanese acupuncture, for the most part, is performed by the blind. The same thing that happened in China in regards to “proving” medicine because of the influx of western medicine thought happened in Japan. Both countries were going to throw out folk medicines like acupuncture and herbology in favour of the “western” variety (biomedical sciences).
While Japan was quite busy becoming a seriously industrialized country, they recognized that the blind would have no jobs in the “new world.” So with much pleading from that population, the blind had their designated profession laid out by the government.
A new style of acupuncture then developed. One we call “Meridian Therapy.” It has evolved over the years, lending many diagnostic techniques to sophisticated palpation. The idea has helped me in my practice. For the Traditional Chinese Medicine approach, most points are chosen based on patterns about a person’s condition in relation to their verbal responses, their tongue picture and radial pulse. While these are of some importance in Meridian Therapy, moreso is the ability to sense tightness or depressions along a meridian (hence why the blind are so successful with it - possible heightened sense of touch).
In my practice, not only is it nice to get certain acupuncture points right because of pattern diagnosis, but it is certainly great when there is a “problem” with that acupuncture point as well.
But of course, one has to wonder (if one believes in this sort of thing) whether I’m actually doing the healing, or just part of a bigger picture (God/Source/channel). But that’s WAY off topic!
I heard that a Brit might be opening up a school outside of Tokyo next year, my only concern for him is what will he do w/o any good English ales to drink. Better learn how to Brew:D
Don
A new style of acupuncture then developed. One we call “Meridian Therapy.” It has evolved over the years, lending many diagnostic techniques to sophisticated palpation. The idea has helped me in my practice. For the Traditional Chinese Medicine approach, most points are chosen based on patterns about a person’s condition in relation to their verbal responses, their tongue picture and radial pulse. While these are of some importance in Meridian Therapy, moreso is the ability to sense tightness or depressions along a meridian (hence why the blind are so successful with it - possible heightened sense of touch).
----I have been studying the Japanese approach to acupuncture recently and find myself drawn to it much more than the TCM approach. I am beginning a medical acupuncture course next month that is given by the Helms Medical Institute. I am a Physical Medicine doctor and a Chiropractor and treat a lot of chronic pain patients. I really like the Japanese emphasis on palpation and locating points based upon reactivity rather than textbook locations. Another similar approach that I have been recently reading about is from an acupuncturist named Mark Seem. He combines the western approach to myofascial problems that was developed by Janet Travell with the Japanese meridian therapy systems. Of course, as a PM&R doc, that’s right up my alley!
A note-there can be variations depending on individual skills and cumulative experience.
Re: A Chinese acupuncturist I know and trust in the valley:I have lost touch with him lately but he is very good.
He is from Tianjin, PRC. His training involved some required med school courses then followed by
TCM training. He was on the faculty of an acupuncture college at Tianjin. Over 20 years of hands on experience. And he knows his herbs well. And does hands on dit da. He does “feel”
every relevant point before inserting needles. His diagnosis includes hands on work besides
pulses, tongue, tongue etc.
In TCM as in many things- depends on who you see.
It is written by an M.D. who runs the Victoria Pain Clinic. It holds accounts of amazing healing through myofascial, acupuncture and hyperventilation breathing therapies. It really changed my outlook on health and wellness. It’s really cheap, too!
Our acupuncture association is bringing a gentleman from PEI out to teach the Japanese Abdominal Palpation. It helps blend some eastern and western diagnostics and is supposed to react immediately to your acupuncture treatment. I like this idea as you don’t have to wait a week for the client to return with their findings.
Joy: Yes, it is true that many people can be good at many things no matter their country or training. My problem is that I want to digest everything RIGHT NOW! So over the lifetime of my career, I’m sure I will become quite well rounded. I’m very excited about how far this medicine can take me AND my clients!!! Good to hear that other practitioners are embracing all parts of this medicine. Just like anything (Wing Chun?!?), segregation and “my acupuncture is better than yours” doesn’t do anybody any good.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;847771]A note-there can be variations depending on individual skills and cumulative experience.
In TCM as in many things- depends on who you see.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Hi Joy!
That is a good point! But one can talk in generalities as well. In the early 60’s communist China decided to “revamp” its approach to healthcare. Trying to follow a western model, they sought to standardize the traditional acupuncture methods into one system that could be widely and easily taught. What they came up with is now known as “Traditional Chinese Medicine.” In the spirit of “standardizing” knowledge they produced acupoint atlases that precisely locates points based on anatomical landmarks. This is not how points were found in the “classics.” They also put a much heavier emphasis on the status of the organs or “Zang Fu” than on the meridians and the theoretical background comes primarily from herbalism systems. Diagnosis centers more around looking at the tongue, palpating the pulses, and questioning the patient than on palpation of the meridians themselves and other various areas of the body. “Family” systems still exist in China. “Tung’s” Acupuncture is one by way of Taiwan that is gaining popularity in the west. So things can definitely vary with different individuals. But for the most part, when talking about “TCM” it will have the characteristics that Kenton and I were talking about.
I would refer to this clip as a ‘stolen’ form! :rolleyes: I have never seen anything like this before in schools from a Japanese background. I have to say though, I’ve seen similar attempts in some WCK clips on Youtube.
Begs the question, does anyone actually know this once forbidden form?
I met a cung nhou black belt practitioner recently. Although he alluded that there were elements of wing chun, he didn’t provide any convincing evidence for it other than trying to focus some karate style punches to the centreline.
I do believe this vietnamese style was developed recently (as opposed to centuries past), but wing chun was in Vietnam a long time ago, allowing plagiarism over time. Would love to hear their interpretation of the biu jee movements though…
[QUOTE=Buddha_Fist;847803]Seriously: Are you kidding?
If not. Why forbidden?[/QUOTE]
Well, I’m as serious as one can be on a forum!
Perhaps I should explain. You see, when I was training SLT it was considered to be a bit ‘eager’ to want to learn CK or BJ. In fact it was ‘forbidden’ in a way to even ‘look’ at it! Who knows why?! I came to the conclusion that Sifu just wanted us to concentrate on what we were doing and where we were at. There was never really any talk of ‘secrets’, quite the opposite in fact.
What I have seen on the web in reference to BJ seems to me to be plenty of ‘copying’ and in some cases it’s quite hard to believe that some were shown the form at all by anyone.
Most of what I see are simply images of the forms sequences, some accurate and some not so and most done at a mediocre pace. I have yet to see anything even close to a ‘full speed and power’ interpretation of what this form can do!
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;847799]I would refer to this clip as a ‘stolen’ form! :rolleyes: I have never seen anything like this before in schools from a Japanese background. I have to say though, I’ve seen similar attempts in some WCK clips on Youtube.
Begs the question, does anyone actually know this once forbidden form?[/QUOTE]
that’s called trying to copy something without knowing the reasons or functions behind each moves
Yiquan is present in Japan as Taikiken. I don’t know how popular it is and how much it has changed.
Good point - I’ve actually got a book on Taikiken somewhere.
The school I went to was straight Xingyi - black uniforms, frog buttons, etc.
my only concern for him is what will he do w/o any good English ales to drink
As an Aussie with a brother in law who managed pubs in Britain for over 20 years, I can state with some authority that “good English ales” is a contradiction in terms.
Most of what I see are simply images of the forms sequences, some accurate and some not so and most done at a mediocre pace. I have yet to see anything even close to a ‘full speed and power’ interpretation of what this form can do!
I’ve seen good Bil Jee from several lineages. Your expereince is very different from mine. That “Bil Jee dies not go outside the door” stuff passed its use by date in the early nineties IMO.
WoW, interesting find - im guessing she’s never applied any of that :rolleyes:
Different strokes for different folks. I suppose if i got applause like that at training i might go five times a week instead of four LOL.
when I was training SLT it was considered to be a bit ‘eager’ to want to learn CK or BJ. In fact it was ‘forbidden’ in a way to even ‘look’ at it! Who knows why?!
I can understand this POV.
BJ does break rules or is contrary to behaviours that you are trying to forge into habbit early on. Seeing things in BJ such as actions comming from under ones bridge could confuse someone learning to behave without doing that.
First you must learn to use a tool before you are taught to adapt the same tool when its not sucessful.
[QUOTE=anerlich;847907]I’ve seen good Bil Jee from several lineages. Your expereince is very different from mine. That “Bil Jee dies not go outside the door” stuff passed its use by date in the early nineties IMO.[/QUOTE]
Yes we all have individual experiences, so of course I am different to all of you, as you are all different than eachother!
‘Good’ Bil Jee is fine, but what is ‘superb’ Bil Jee? Have you seen that? I have seen aome phenomenal examples, yet I’ve still to see this ‘outside’ my own family.
Maybe it’s the commercial thing, as the people I’m talking about are not Youtubers or Facebookers. Man, they can’t stand all this chit chat actually. But they move through the forms with ease and understadning. We all appreciated the complexities of the forms, especially BJ, so we’re grateful to have even ‘seen’ it demonstrated…
