jack/john springer and hung gar?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Hi everyone,
I was reading a thread on a forum and someone put up a link to a thread by a certain john/jack springer. This is the link:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158

I hadn’t known or heard much about the Mr springer individual so I asked on the forum EF about who his teacher was and what lineage.

Link :http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834;start=0

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834;start=15

Got told to go ask the man so I did here.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158&st=140

It seems that springer is very touchy about the question and he’s got a lot of supporters on EF yet he and his supporters is unable to simply answer the question of who is his hung gar teacher and what lineage.

Based on his behaviour and that of his supporters :
What this tells me is that:

  • There is something to hide. (Avoiding the questions and then change the subject by shooting insults and accusing troll and not following ‘forum rules’ which were NOT set out in the register page.)

  • Mr. Springer and supporters are insecure. (Why else feel so threatened by a simple question/s and the need to shoot the insults and find excuses for not anwering a straight question. Instead, you have excuses.

*Mr Springer’s comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, if any attention is to be given at all. I’m very suspicious he is a fraud with no legitimate lineage.

Google shows these links
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/printthread.php?t=36075

http://lionsroar.name/master_john_f_springer.htm

Note in the lionsroar website nowhere does he mention who is Hung Gar teacher was. It also doesn’t explain what lineage although it mentions the name wong fei hung. Makes me very suspicious.

Does anyone have any comments to confirm or defend ?

that is not just blind support (in my opinion for a fraud) with nothing to back it up, like the people at EF who just call troll but have nothing of any substance to support springer is not a fraud in Hung gar.
(EF people don’t bother responding as I like to call BS what it is : BS, and you BS supporters opinions are not worth very much).

For other folks here, sorry for the bit of ‘heat’, but I’m just not impressed with the outright insults they gave me for asking a simple question initially which wasn’t impolite or rude. You can check the threads in the links for yourself.

Thanks people.

2

His teachers and lineage are well known, trolling idiot. :rolleyes:

3

I believe he said he learned from Bill Chung, not to be confused with William Cheung of Wing Chun. Bill Chung is well-known in NYC Mo-Lum.

4

yeah, many don’t like him, but his lineage is no secret

5

I thought he was a Southern Mantis guy?

6

[QUOTE=SifuAbel;759017]His teachers and lineage are well known, trolling idiot. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Well if it was already well known, then you could have just simply stated the answer to a simple question: Who is springer’s hung gar teacher and what is his lineage?
Or if its already all over the net then just point to the link. Why the need to insult?

You could have simply answered the question and it would just settle the issue immediately. But you instead of doing that, you chose to just avoid or just deter from the question and then INSULT ME. But its not surprising since you come from THE SAME FORUM where springer and some friends just simply shot insults without addressing the question. Yes I mean your truthmartialarts.org.

Funny you should use the word ‘truth’ since you simply can’t tell the truth to a simple questions. If the guy is a BS artist and you are a BS supporter like the other EF BS supporters, then don’t you think you will start to radiate the smell of BS? I think it tells people a lot if you are a blind and strong BS supporter!

Yeah well, I’ve already searched the internet.
Here is another link courtesy of a search engine
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15491

The more you people insult me and the more I search, it seems its getting quite obvious. Looks like Mr Springer got involved with southern mantis as well.
Interesting post from a springerfist:

08-22-2002, 10:59 PM
springerfist
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6

You need to stop making fun of Jack. He learned under William Chung, not Bill Chan. After 30 years of hardcore training, Jack mastered Toison fu hok tong long. Yes, he mastered both hung gar and jook lum simultaneously. He can’t give all the credit to Chung sifu though, or his sigung Mark. Chung sifu only taught him a few basic san saos and a 3 step form maybe. Due to his great genius, Jack figured out the rest of JL himself. Even though his sifu stopped teaching him, he showed his sifu that hands-on training is a Chinese fairytale requirement. He got everything he needed from Mark’s videos and extensive internet research. Based on those videos and meeting Mark over 20 years ago, he clearly sees that Mark is no match for him.
Jack has extensive chow gar training as well, he has every one of Whitrod’s tapes. Now he knows that Whitrod’s “wooden arms” are no match for his springer fist. And he knows that Yip Sui polluted the system with forms because he was there when Yip Sui was learning from Lao Sui. He knows what Lao Sui taught and didn’t teach. Facts, baby. What a hoot
He even picked up 13 roads through video training- no easy task. He earned his sifu status! And 13 + 3 = 18, right? What a hoot.

Unlike Lam Sang, he has quite a fighting resume as well. If he had showed up to fight Ralek, he certainly would have won. Lucky for Ralek, he didn’t.
He knows Lam is lying because he was there when Lam entered the temple and when he left. Had to help Lam up after he lost those fights. Facts, baby, not hearsay. Jack knows these things firsthand.
And he ain’t no hyppocrite either. He may show up to Minn or Houston to shut down a few schools, without warning. You can bet he will be at Poo Yee’s seminar and any demo Mark does in baltimore. He ain’t no hyppocrite.
So don’t mess with him, or else you’ll have to face gingerfist, hideous, hakkaeye, ML all at once.

7

Is masturbation one of your “gung’s”? :rolleyes:

8

[QUOTE=SevenStar;759024]yeah, many don’t like him, but his lineage is no secret[/QUOTE]

Just what is that crap in your sig from?

9

Looks like this is NOT THE FIRST TIME jack or john springer has been asked his lineage
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14955&page=3

And an interesting post. Nothing to hide by jack eh? (BS supporters!)

#38 08-18-2002, 03:14 AM
redfist
Member Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 92

gou z idiot

hey jack,
who certfied you to teach?

why do you put down gin foon mark?you used to kiss his ass,for
any bit of information you could get,but you didn`t get anything,
i guess thats why you are so ****ed off,

thats where you got your jook lum from,remember hanging
around nyc chinatown with ho dun and norman chin?

you say you despise lum sang but thats where your
“deadly” hakka hand came from,

now seriously jack,post your lineage for all to see,
i will look it over let and you know how legitament it is.

while i`m at it,i noticed your disdain for the chow gar of ip sui,
is he not the oldest living practioner of nan tong long today?
maybe 70+ years of experiance.
you expect us to think you know more then he does?
you have no respect for your elders,nor for yourself.

hear that jack?

the walls are closing in,the truth is out there jack,
unfortunately so are you.

Last edited by redfist : 08-18-2002 at 03:28 AM.

10

Why would you care. Its not like you are going to go learn from him etc.

ttt for JFSpringer!

:eek:

11

[QUOTE=SifuAbel;759130]Just what is that crap in your sig from?[/QUOTE]

some thread that I locked in the southern forum. There was actually much more than this, but I had to edit it all, as there is a character limit for sig length.

12

???

Now THAT is funny!

[QUOTE=Terrygrey;759051]

08-22-2002, 10:59 PM
springerfist
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6
[I]
“Due to his great genius, Jack figured out the rest of JL himself.” :eek:

“He got everything he needed from Mark’s videos and extensive internet research. Based on those videos and meeting Mark over 20 years ago, he clearly sees that Mark is no match for him.” :eek:

"Jack has extensive chow gar training as well, he has every one of Whitrod’s tapes. Now he knows that Whitrod’s “wooden arms” are no match for his springer fist. "

“He knows Lam is lying because he was there when Lam entered the temple and when he left. Had to help Lam up after he lost those fights.” :eek: :eek: :eek: [/I]
[/QUOTE]

Oh yea, beacuase EVERYONE puts there REAL secrets on tape for public consumtion. LOL!!!

13

another unknown mouth boxer wasting bandwidth

Terry is nothing but another little stick of a boy who seems to be totally unable to do anything other than troll MA forums with this crap.

He was banned on Empty Flower for being a total and utter j a c k a s s who could not take advice from the many who know John personally.

Unknown mouth boxers who spout off waste bandwidth. Are we not surprised? No we are not.

Yet this little boy keeps at it on every forum he can locate with his weak puter fu skills.

He is nothing but a broken record who has total delusions about the martial arts and those who would rather step up and spout off.

Funny how you snipe at John from the net but have not the gonads to step up and actually met him and see how his “lack of lineage” affects his skills.

See Terry, many of us are sick and tired of mouth boxing. You are doing nothing but mouth boxing(which can be known as internet boxing as well) and seem to be totally oblivious to reality.

Good luck as you are going to need it in real life.

14

[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;759695]Funny how you snipe at John from the net but have not the gonads to step up and actually met him and see how his “lack of lineage” affects his skills.

[/QUOTE]

Well now you are one of his BS supporters, right? You attack me like the rest of springer’s BS supporters, yet you cannot answer the simple question: Who is springer’s hung gar teacher and what is his lineage? I’m not even asking about his ‘skill’. You get that? And that quote “see how his “lack of lineage” affects his skills” are YOU ADMITTING JACK SPRINGER LACKS A LEGITIMATE LINEAGE?

Banning someone from a forum for asking a simple questions, together with the large number of BS supporters who can (or will) only shoot personal insults and yet not address a simple questions TELLS PEOPLE JACK SPRINGER AND SUPPORTERS DO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE, RIGHT?

Yeah claim you have a PH.D. and when someone simply asks “from which University ?” , simply get together with bunch of BS supporters and attack him for asking, call him a troll, ban him but yet NOT SIMPLY ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION! (Sarcastic analogy in case you didn’t get that).
Not hard to smell BS, eh?

People can check the threads themselves, how a simple questions was asked, and all the stupid attempts by the BS supporters to find excuses and to defend the BS artist (?) yet where did the man himself or the supporters try to answer the question? Isn’t that a stronger “defense”? ( thats if he has a legitimate lineage to begin with, right?)

The more stupid attempts you BS supporters use to defend a suspect fraud, and the more personal insults you throw out yet have no substance to defend the suspect, the more it is becoming obvious.

Not everyone is so blind!

15

You know, it does seem to be a simple thing to just answer who your lineage is from…unless you are like me and learned bits and scraps of a style from all over. In which case just say that…

That doesn’t show skill though, and someone like me can be very skilled even without a lineage. Someone with a lineage can totally suck.

Dodging the question, and attacking the questioneer though, opens one up to criticizem.

16

[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;759040]I thought he was a Southern Mantis guy?[/QUOTE]

He was put in charge of a particular SPM line but he was already a recognized Hung Gar master at the time. The styles have a lot of overlap being southern and all. He says that SPM folks often lack the kind of, for lack of a better metaphore, “engine” inside that Hung Gar presents. Great tactical set but kind of limited and Hung Gar, especiall the Iron Wire set, provides incredible power generation that can drive the SPM frame for incredible effect.

17

Terrygrey,

As I said before, good luck as you are going to need it in this life.

18

[QUOTE=Terrygrey;759016]Hi everyone,
I was reading a thread on a forum and someone put up a link to a thread by a certain john/jack springer. This is the link:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158

I hadn’t known or heard much about the Mr springer individual so I asked on the forum EF about who his teacher was and what lineage.

Link :http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834;start=0

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834;start=15

Got told to go ask the man so I did here.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158&st=140

It seems that springer is very touchy about the question and he’s got a lot of supporters on EF yet he and his supporters is unable to simply answer the question of who is his hung gar teacher and what lineage.

Based on his behaviour and that of his supporters :
What this tells me is that:

  • There is something to hide. (Avoiding the questions and then change the subject by shooting insults and accusing troll and not following ‘forum rules’ which were NOT set out in the register page.)

  • Mr. Springer and supporters are insecure. (Why else feel so threatened by a simple question/s and the need to shoot the insults and find excuses for not anwering a straight question. Instead, you have excuses.

*Mr Springer’s comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, if any attention is to be given at all. I’m very suspicious he is a fraud with no legitimate lineage.

Google shows these links
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/printthread.php?t=36075

http://lionsroar.name/master_john_f_springer.htm

Note in the lionsroar website nowhere does he mention who is Hung Gar teacher was. It also doesn’t explain what lineage although it mentions the name wong fei hung. Makes me very suspicious.

Does anyone have any comments to confirm or defend ?

that is not just blind support (in my opinion for a fraud) with nothing to back it up, like the people at EF who just call troll but have nothing of any substance to support springer is not a fraud in Hung gar.
(EF people don’t bother responding as I like to call BS what it is : BS, and you BS supporters opinions are not worth very much).

For other folks here, sorry for the bit of ‘heat’, but I’m just not impressed with the outright insults they gave me for asking a simple question initially which wasn’t impolite or rude. You can check the threads in the links for yourself.

Thanks people.[/QUOTE]

I am a little confused here Terry.
The lionsroar website you mention actually shows John and some people that, if you knew what you were talking about, would answer all your questions.
So, what is your confusion?
I take it you know nothing of Hung Ga or SPM ?
You certainly don’t seem to know or recognise anyone in those pictures with John.

What is your agenda?

19

Whacko Jacko

Jack got a few Hung Gar forms from Bill Chung who got them from Gin Foon Mark.

Thats it. A few forms, thats all. No complete curriculim, no real linage. Just a mish-mosh of forms.

Chung was allowed to hang with the Masons because he was born in America and was useful for answering mail and running errands for the old men who spoke no English.

Chung opened a school in New Jersey where he beat and abused poor lofans like Jack and called it “training”. Chung also told tall tales of streetfighting and triads to the suckers who lapped it up like Gospel.

Jack is a common barroom brawler with some size and speed, but he has NOTHING when it comes to SPM. He claims he had an “unamed” Chu Gar teacher is the 1980’s and then he was a video correspondence student of Steve Richards when Steve was calling Roger Hagood “Sifu” LOL! Then Jack went over to England to see Lee Lien and got the ENTIRE LYS system “transmitted” to him a few hours! LOL!!!

That Jack, he’s always good for a chuckle as his story as changed so many times over the years, that he tripping over his lies left and right these days. He plays the lame card that he set “traps” over the years to confuse people with his lies. Hilarious.

-jo

20

[QUOTE=jo;759815]Jack got a few Hung Gar forms from Bill Chung who got them from Gin Foon Mark.

Thats it. A few forms, thats all. No complete curriculim, no real linage. Just a mish-mosh of forms.

Chung was allowed to hang with the Masons because he was born in America and was useful for answering mail and running errands for the old men who spoke no English.

Chung opened a school in New Jersey where he beat and abused poor lofans like Jack and called it “training”. Chung also told tall tales of streetfighting and triads to the suckers who lapped it up like Gospel.

Jack is a common barroom brawler with some size and speed, but he has NOTHING when it comes to SPM. He claims he had an “unamed” Chu Gar teacher is the 1980’s and then he was a video correspondence student of Steve Richards when Steve was calling Roger Hagood “Sifu” LOL! Then Jack went over to England to see Lee Lien and got the ENTIRE LYS system “transmitted” to him a few hours! LOL!!!

That Jack, he’s always good for a chuckle as his story as changed so many times over the years, that he tripping over his lies left and right these days. He plays the lame card that he set “traps” over the years to confuse people with his lies. Hilarious.

-jo[/QUOTE]

And you know all this how?