[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1249059]If you do decide to hit back then why don’t you hit back earlier? If you hit back earlier then can you still call it self defense?
When you do “self defense”, it’s the same as you “help someone to go to heaven”. It may only look pretty outside.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1249029]It is not even about moral high ground. Its about safety. There are consequences to your actions. You want to risk escalating the fight to a more dangerous level, you want to risk yourself being in trouble for causing damage? [/QUOTE]
I agree. If your not willing to escalate the level of danger you should not engage in the fight. You should run. More often than not, this is the wiser choice. Why not train running instead? Where does self defense come into play? It’s not the same as attacking your aggressor, that is fighting.
[QUOTE=Alex Córdoba;1249108]I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the term “Myth”.
One day the word itself will be a Myth.[/QUOTE]
:)
Me too really, lol…the myth busting thing has gotten out of hand and here I am adding to the problem…
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1249112]
That’s what I mean by the military tradition…it’s very different then how it’s often presented. You train, harden and desensitize troops…you understand there will be losses and are prepared to accept it. The individual understands there is a very real possibility of serious injury or death, the mindset is different…this has nothing to do with the Western ideology of “self defense.”
The first step in any real potentially violent situation is to avoid engagement. But once that threshold has been crossed… You do what you have to do. Sometimes recognizing that line is your greatest asset. When to put you hands up and back down vs when you take aggression to whatever level you have to in order to feel safe. So obviously you don’t viciously stomp somebody once their out of commission. But if they are getting back up? Do what you have to. If they are winning a fist fight, you shouldn’t have to ask yourself why you are fist fighting and when it’s appropriate to start tearing off body parts. Know what I mean? And all that is assuming you are even able, which of course is why we always start with rule one. Cause you don’t know, it’s just that simple. But once that attack starts, you have to assume it can get deadly. It’s about survival of the fittest, pure and simple. Whether you use your mind, your hands, a weapon, any combination of these things… you do what you have to do. I honestly think worrying about legal or moral consequences is a potentially fatal mistake. We aren’t talking about school yard fist fights here. I am assuming that we are all peaceful and not looking for trouble, and if that’s the case… well, you know what I’m sayin.
“if you aren’t prepared to die, better to not go to war today”
Old Japanese saying
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1249118]I agree. If your not willing to escalate the level of danger you should not engage in the fight. You should run. More often than not, this is the wiser choice. Why not train running instead? Where does self defense come into play? It’s not the same as attacking your aggressor, that is fighting.[/QUOTE]
Some people cannot physically run, or at least outrun most (young) attackers. Meaning those with chronic issues, etc. But I agree that the best ‘defense’ is to simply not be where the trouble is, or doing your best to avoid it. Problem is, that isn’t always possible.
Nobody says “hey, get ready 'cuz I’m going to attack you!”, that’s why teaching SD is mostly a joke.
Thing is, there’s three types of people based on how you deal with a real threat and they are Flight, Fight or Freeze. You don’t have much in a choice in what you are, but unless you can really address and find out what you really are fer realz - then there’s no way that you can learn a defense.
Consider the example of nature. Alpha dog asserts dominance over Beta dog. Beta dog does not engage Alpha dog. He rolls over on his back and pees on himself. If Alpha attacks Beta, Beta cowers, retreats, may defend, but without conviction, tail is between his legs, he looks for an opportunity for retreat. This is self defense mindset.
Alpha dog confronts Alpha dog. If one attacks, the other does not defend. (Not in the sense of Beta dog.) He attacks his attacker. One or both will probably be injured.
I do not believe these two scenarios are the same, or can be prepared for in the same way.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1249129]
Thing is, there’s three types of people based on how you deal with a real threat and they are Flight, Fight or Freeze. You don’t have much in a choice in what you are, but unless you can really address and find out what you really are fer realz - then there’s no way that you can learn a defense.[/QUOTE]
Yes…
best "self defense"is to learn to live in a way that avoids conflict… ironically, most TCMA went from living a pretty normal life to being exposed to unsavory and dangerous people by studying so called “self defense”
[QUOTE=Jimbo;1249127] But I agree that the best ‘defense’ is to simply not be where the trouble is, or doing your best to avoid it. Problem is, that isn’t always possible.[/QUOTE]
No it isn’t always possible; and best laid plans and all…there are no guarantees…
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1249135]No it isn’t always possible; and best laid plans and all…there are no guarantees…[/QUOTE]
never impossible, but always less and less probable depending upon how you think and conduct yourself…
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1249133]best "self defense"is to learn to live in a way that avoids conflict… ironically, most TCMA went from living a pretty normal life to being exposed to unsavory and dangerous people by studying so called “self defense”[/QUOTE]
Your very experienced with both sides of the coin…would you agree that there is a very different mindset in developing a fighter, as opposed to working self defense?
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1249137]Your very experienced with both sides of the coin…would you agree that there is a very different mindset in developing a fighter, as opposed to working self defense?[/QUOTE]
NO, totallly DISAGREE…
violence is violence
never noticed how many 'sport fighters" get into street and bar fights??
take a guy who has all that ring or cage experience against the guy who took a “self defense program” in a bar fight and the “sport fighter” eats his lunch
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1249138]NO, totallly DISAGREE…
violence is violence
never noticed how many 'sport fighters" get into street and bar fights??
take a guy who has all that ring or cage experience against the guy who took a “self defense program” in a bar fight and the “sport fighter” eats his lunch[/QUOTE]
But is a bar fight self defense?
Take a sport fighter or SD guy, have them walking down the street or taking their girl to her car in a parking garage and have someone out-of-the-blue slam them upside the head with a brick. Then two of their buds start kicking the sh*t out of the guy as another drags the girl off to do who knows what.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1249138]NO, totallly DISAGREE…
violence is violence
never noticed how many 'sport fighters" get into street and bar fights??
take a guy who has all that ring or cage experience against the guy who took a “self defense program” in a bar fight and the “sport fighter” eats his lunch[/QUOTE]
Yes, because self defense doesn’t develop the same mind set as fighting, because it’s not the same thing. That’s what I was getting at…
[QUOTE=MightyB;1249141]But is a bar fight self defense?
[/QUOTE]
“self defense” is bullshit
how many people have been hit in the head with a brick and stompted by three guys who were just innocently walking down the street?
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1249142]Yes, because self defense doesn’t develop the same mind set as fighting, because it’s not the same thing. That’s what I was getting at…[/QUOTE]
people come in for a “self defense class” and don’t want to get sweaty, they don’t want to get hit, they don’t want someone on top of them on teh ground grabbing at them… and all that is exactly what will happen in “da real fight”
I like to walk up to people in self defense seminars and just SCREAM AT THEM AS LOUD AS I CAN… I haven’t even touched them and most have their heart pounding and jump
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1249144]“self defense” is bullshit
how many people have been hit in the head with a brick and stompted by three guys who were just innocently walking down the street?[/QUOTE]
idk - but Gene and I were just discussing an article in the busted MMAists thread about a gun/pawn shop owner getting smacked in the head with a hammer in his store while he was talking to the distraction (woman posing as a customer). And those clips I posted looked pretty legit - lots of people getting jumped by any number of thugs - the second is a guy getting beat down in a parking garage while one drags his woman away.