[QUOTE=MasterKiller;858872]
You are saying he created his own versions of Bagua, Six Harmonies, and Tai Chi?[/QUOTE]
I think so but not for sure I will e-mail Sifu John Dufresne to find out to find out exactly where Grandmaster Ng’s stuff comes from exactly because I don’t want to tell you wrong. I’ll post it as soon as I find out. 
Just e-mailed John Dufresne to find out where GM Ng’s stuff comes from. I’ll post his reply when I get it. I only studied under GM Ng for three years and during that three years he just taught basics over and over, I’m taklking about only doing side kick, round house kick, front kick, hook kick, horse stance, front stance, drop stance, and maybe learning 5 or so hand strikes, and learning one form (Plum Flower Fist). He wanted to make sure we new our basics well. If you know your basics then everything else will come more easily. Thats all we did for the 3 years I studied under GM Ng. We did sparr. That was brutal. We would sparr with minimal sparring pads. Most of the time we would only wear hand pads and a mouth guard, that was it. We would go pretty hard contact but i loved it. He made us some good fighters thats for sure. Then I have been with John dufresne for 15+ years.
Green Bamboo Viper? I thought you guys taught a “Golden Snake” style.
[QUOTE=Judge Pen;858881]Green Bamboo Viper? I thought you guys taught a “Golden Snake” style.[/QUOTE]
No I thought we did but I went back through my notes that I would write down back when I was younger and its Green Bamboo Viper. I admitt I was wrong (it doesn’t happen often though…lol). Sorry about that.
IIRC, there was an article in KungFu/TaiChi magazine about Ng’s Golden Snake style.
What style does your Plum Blossom form come from?
Plumb Bussoms, Golden Snakes…what kind of kung fu is going on over here !!!
I have two articles written by Dufresne. The first one is on snake style and the other one is on drunken style. He talks about the snake style he does came from Bamboo Temple. It also shows some techniques using the snake spear (with the wavy spear tip) If you PM me your e-mail address then I will e-mail the articles to you (if you want). One article is from Inside Kung Fu the other is out of Karate Illustrated. Both back in the mid to late 80’s.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;858891]Plumb Bussoms, Golden Snakes…what kind of kung fu is going on over here !!!
:p[/QUOTE]
Better to have golden snakes than to have golden showers. 
There was a recent article, within the last couple of years, about a Golden Snake style. I believe it was Ng family, but not written by him. The guy had a mullet and wore an American flag shirt with the sleeves cut out…you know…a Kentucky tuxedo.
Here is my orginal thread:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25988
Was it Tom Pardue? I think I saw that article, thats what made me think that our snake was Golden Snake but then the article I saw written by Dufresne says it came from Bamboo Temple and that it was Green Bamboo Viper which would make sense if in fact it came from Bamboo Temple.
I am sorry that I do not visit this board more often. Perhaps I would have been able to clear up any questions before things went quite in the direction that they did. My name is Shane Bryant, and I am a closed door student of Master Tim Pickens, the author of the mentioned article. I have trained with him since I was twelve years old, and he is my family. First, any deragatory comments towards him I will now disregard and assume that they were originally made in good fun. After this message I will no longer make that assumption. John Dufresne is my uncle in the arts. I have the highest respect for his abilities and his growth as a martial artist and more importantly as a man. I won’t be involved in any discussion on the nature of his character from this point forward. Beyond that, he certainly does not need me to defend him as his accomplishments are numerous and easy enough to find out on your own.
On to the things that I do wish to discuss. My teacher as well as his brother, Master Ricky Pickens, who I have also trained with regularly and also regard as my family, both recieved black belts from Sin The in the Shaolin-Do organization. When Rick met Dr. John Ng while attending Eastern Kentucky University, they switched thier training to Dr. Ng’s family arts, feeling that this training was better suited to their goals as martial artists. The Southern Golden Snake art that my teacher is speaking of in this article is from Dr. Ng’s system and not from the Shaolin-Do system. Neither of the Masters Pickens have any current affiliation with that organization. Also, my martial uncle Master Mark Speck was mentioned as well. Master Speck also originally began in the Shaolin-Do system, but left when he met Master Rick Pickens to become a student of the Pickens Brothers. He is, to this date, the most learned of their students, as well as a good man, which is more important.
Now, many of the comments made in this discussion thread were negative, which immediately makes me suspect that perhaps the individuals involved just wanted to bash something and be heard, not to contribute or learn. However, I am going to make yet another assumption (despite what we all know that makes me) and assume that you all do want to share information in humility so that we may all grow in our knowledge. In that spirit, I invite all of you who still have questions to email me at shane_bryant@hotmail.com and I will be happy to talk to you in length about whatever it is that you are curious about in regards to this article or our style in general. If I do not have the answers I will tell you so, but I will also go to my teachers and try to get them for you. I AM willing to respond to questions on this board, but that is not exactly my favorite thing. I prefer private correspondence as those who wish to truly have a discussion are not interrupted by those who only wish to speak without meaning. A lesson to them is that there is a difference between having pride in your system and its heritage and loving your teachers, and what often occurs on this board. The first is very personal and strong, while the latter is fragile and based upon feelings of inadequacy and an ego that must be catered to by publicly crusading against any who take issue with you in order to combat those feelings.
One final note, to themeecer. I truly expect to hear from you. You wrote with the connotation that you had disdain for the information contained in the article. I will not argue with you because I know the quality of the results contained in these teachings. I will humble myself to you now because I am nothing and ask you to share knowledge in return.
To all of you again, please, I invite discourse.
Shane Bryant
From that thread…
Mark,
Can you clarify your feelings about why you think Ng’s style is more pertinent and authentic if you believe he made up most of your forms, as opposed to why Sin The’ is not authentic because you feel he made up most of his forms?
I’m not making any judgement calls about either system, mind you. But can you elaborate?
There are some people that teach Ng Family style that are a little on the different/strange side and then there are some people that teach Ng family style that studied for maybe a year or so and are trying to cash in on his name by saying they’re a high rank black sash under John Ng..
Are you saying that Tim Pickens isn’t a legit student of John Ng? I found this site: http://ngfamilymuncie.tripod.com/id2.html.
http://www.6harmonies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=1&el_mcal=-2
According to this website, Golden Snake is taught under the lineage of John Ng.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;858899]Mark,
Can you clarify your feelings about why you think Ng’s style is more pertinent and authentic if you believe he made up most of your forms, as opposed to why Sin The’ is not authentic because you feel he made up most of his forms?
I’m not making any judgement calls about either system, mind you. But can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
Sure I’ll be happy to explain myself. First I’m not sure if he (meaning Ng’s grandfather) made them up, modified them or what he did. Thats why I have e-mailed Dufresne to find out. Now, on to your question…Its not so much that I think or believe GM Sin made up these forms. My thing is that some of the forms don’t (in my opinion) look chinese in any way or look like what I’ve seen any other chinese kung fu martial artist do. SD forms have a look all of thier own. And don’t tell me that nobody teaches authentic kung fu. All the kung fu forms that I have seen are fluid and smooth with circular blocking and so forth. The very first form that is taught under GM Sin looks more like a karate form than anything. The whole X block up and down and the forms makes a square. Thats something I would expect to see a TKD or TSD student do or even Kenpo. I think he borrowed forms from other styles.
[QUOTE=Judge Pen;858903]Are you saying that Tim Pickens isn’t a legit student of John Ng? I found this site: http://ngfamilymuncie.tripod.com/id2.html.[/QUOTE]
I never said that at all. I didn’t mention anyones name specifically, did I? And I won’t say names specifically. But I will say this, The names on that list of people who are legit Ng teachers are not accurate.
The snake style that Grandmaster Ng teaches comes from Bamboo Temple and is the Green Bamboo Viper.
You mention Green Viper yet all the links associated with Dr. Ng refer to it as Golden Snake. Care to comment? Plus, wasn’t there a big stink with Dr. Ng retired among the top echelon? Perhaps some went Green and others went Gold…just a thought.
GoldenTiger…I have seen some of John Ng’s students say they teach golden snake and I have seen where they teach Green Bamboo Viper. I have an article out of Inside Kung Fu from the mid 80’s that was written by my sifu John Dufresne and he says its Green Bamboo Vipe. If you PM me youe e-mail address I’ll send it to you. Only if you want though.
O.K… regarding snake style taught in the Ng family… I went back through the article that I have that Dufresne wrote and it seems like Ng family teaches both green bamboo viper and golden snake because John Duresne mentions both. The article shows him with a snake spear and Rusty Gray with a three sectional staff and John is attacking Rusty with the snake spaer. John goes on to state that the spear was nicknamed “the king of all weapons” by the Shaolin Monks but John states that the snake spear is the “true king” of all weapons.
If anyone wants a copy of the article I have it saved on my computer and can e-mail it to you.