Originally posted by packard
[B]Great feed back guys.
so just to add another thought into the pot…
students who become friends and the exchange of money for lessons. So as a teacher now training a friend, how would you feel about paying/not paying? [/B]
The freindship stops at the door and picks back up when you leave. While in the kwoon, it is strait up student/teacher. As far as paying, he is the one supplying the training space and equipment and it don’t come free… The least I can do is help pay the cost and maybe a little extra so he can afford to teach me.:rolleyes:
Exactly, Becca.. Sifu and friendship are two different things.. when you become so comfortable with your Sifu that it is noticable in the school, there will be problems.. usually with the other students.. i’ve heard so many stories of students that have been to Sifu’s house or gone here or there with him and they feel a superiority over the less fortunate and that is unfortunate.. i know, i was like that at one time.. Now, i understand the value of “friendship” and i don’t bring it to class.. sure, i laugh and joke with all my students, but.. i don’t hold any above others.. they are all “friends” at some level but students, first.. friendships with students outside of class are rewarding and appreciated, but.. the Sifu must at all times remember that they are the example, it’s not an easy responsibility.. everything a Sifu does speaks to the quality of the school and the system.. outside of the school a student may assume whatever role they choose, but the Sifu is always a Sifu, even to the general public..
Keep the relationships separate and there should be minimal issues to deal with and a happier school..
in my opinion, the students you speak of who hold it over others because they participate in private activities with sifu is a symptom of the problem with heirarchical structures.
If there were simply the knowledge/the teacher/the learner and the relationships to each other were not worked into this, then I think the process would weed out these types of behaviours on both the parts of the student and the teacher.
people are the main ingredient not where they are on a totem pole. the totem pole structure is false and in my opinion wholly incorrect.
if you can’t be a friend, then you simply can’t impart everything that you want to impart.
teachers are people, students are people. respect is not the issue, it is the whole incrowd, sidelines mentality that perpetuates this way of thinking which in turn impedes (and severly in my opinion) the propogation of real kungfu.
Being a friend to someone is to not turn your back on them and to not give ultimatums regarding questions that are irrellevant to the teachings.
If both sides cannot see that, then there will always be something lacking between the two.
some people are perfectly happy to just belong to a group though. But this is not why I practice Kungfu.
I consider all of my coaches friends.We hang out outside of class and do things any other friends would do. However, we all love to train, so we put all of that aside in class and train. Once we leave, we’re friends again.
First of all EF is in a different position than what I am about to comment on. If I was in that position I would keep my ears open and mouth shut. Even now I am fortunate that when Mr. Luo comes here he stays at my house. I am not too much younger than him and he doesn’t seem to like too much overt display of honorific. However he is my teacher and I still defer to him and would always. His skill and knowlege will always be lightyears beyond my own. But also, I think, he is my friend. I suspect he might tell me things if I asked, but I don’t want to be too curious. I trust him to give me what he thinks I need. And I like that.
It’s a bit different with my students and me though. We are more contemporary. They are genuinely my friends in that we socialize to no small degree. But when we are in class I am the one with a little more knowlege (I won’t say skill) than they. It’s really never an issue. I can see where they need to improve and they want that. It’s a nice, close relationship that I appreciate. I hope they do as well. But the bootm line is we are friends.
TaiChiBob- I have seen people who act this way, as well. But I learned early on how to keep the two seperate, as my first MA instructor was a Marine Gunny wile I was a lowly LCpl. And his teacher was a retired Air Force Colonal, so I had a good example of how to do it.
YOu guy do realize that in your posts you have made self deprecating comments.
you are never a lowly anything becca. and buddy, as long as you think someone is “light years” ahead of you and always will be, means that you cannot progress.
I understand the value of learning, the value of teaching and the value of having opportunity to do one or the other or both.
I understand how roles work, but I don’t think it is impossible to be friends with someone you have respect for.
Lowly as in Lance Corporals do not “hung out” with Gunnery Sgts, and neither hang out with Colonals. It’s called military Hierarchy. I wasn’t saying I was worthless. I was saying I was severly out-ranked.
well I do think it is a prevalent structure, I don’t think it supercedes friendship. And in the case of young-uns, the need guideance in early experience because they do not have that experience yet.
The family structure is also used in some kwoons and mimiced in others. IE: the trappings are there, but the reality is not. see what I’m saying?
I think the real question is “what is a friend” followed closely by, “who are yours”.
I don’t understand the mystery in all of this … aren’t we all martial artists here?
I’ve had teachers who were closer to my age and from the same culture (Americans). SO in class it was very respectful but afterwards we’d all go grab some food and have a few beers and talk chicks and what not. But the respect was always there. And even then, I wasn’t too anxious to open my mouth. You don’t go out with your college professor who has a PHD studying the Beats and start rambling off at the mouth over Jack Kerouac. Chime in here and there, and listen, learn.
When it comes to my master now, it is a unique relationship. I’ve never called someone master before … but in this instance it fits, is appropriate. This man did something to me the other day (crazy angle, almost 90 degrees on one leg with such force, as if pushing a car) that blew my mind away. I am not on his level when it comes to martial arts. When it comes to surfing, he’s not on mine. But he aint coming to me for surf lessons. I’m coming to him.
