SkarbroughMantis, I suggest talking to your current Mantis sifu first.
If you’re training that long and hard, you ought to be deep into the Mantis system to the point where learning baguazhang with your current background will actually be more painful and timeconsuming than learning the baguazhang WITHOUT your Mantis background.
This is because the footwork, the hand postures, the power generation, and fighting systems of the two systems are completely different. From what I’ve seen and done of 7-star mantis and Baguazhang, you’d have to UNLEARN your 7-star thinking before even thinking about training Baguazhang.
As far as qigong goes, I do not know why you feel the need for additional qigong training if you’re practicing traditional hardcore Mantis whose sets and drills have a very distinct “internal” flavor. Your sifu should be addressing these things day in and day out in training.
Could it be that your intense training schedule leaves you no room to rest and thus you feel the need for qigong to give you respite?
When I practice kung fu, my sifu always insists on moderation.
If you overtrain NOW, you’ll pay for it not just later, but NOW as well!
no dissrespect taken, and again I was honestly trying to help or I would not have responded at all! many times I have asked for help and opinons on this board and have gotten trolls and rude comments but never would I tell someone with a positive genuine interestin my question that didnt help me THANKS FOR NOTHING I thought thats was a little out there and somewhat mannorless, But mant times people ask vague questions and they dont get the answers they are looking for,it is also possible I did not understand your question. I apologize that I couldnt be of more help but I was unaware this was the second time you asked me something and I didnt help you, for I enjoy sharing my experiences and opinons with others that enjoy sharing with me! and It is not like me to not help others on this board! anyways good luck in your internal training.
I’d like to know what some others of you think about this, but it has been suggested that bagua is easier to learn if you have a good prior background in another art. I think you probably still have to go through the empty cup thing (I certainly did), but Dong Haichuan was said to teach only experienced fighters, and my own teacher often comments that he finds it much more difficult to teach bagua as an entry-level art. Many other internal instructors will only teach it to students who have a solid foundation in xingyi or taiji (this, however, makes me think that it is not their primary art). Only one of the guys I train with has learnt bagua exclusively - he’s very good, but he also started young and persisted. I’ve seen many more give up after taking a long time to pick up the first few principles.
The qigong idea is, I think, a very good one, although qigong is also a broad area. Maybe you could take a class on taiji qigong, or maybe you could even find someone to get you going on bagua qigong (there are plenty of people on this forum who practise it and may be able to refer you to a teacher, book or video). A moving version might be good to get some sung into your mantis.
Depends, learning something that requires a certain type of hard to develop skill might be boring for some one with no prior training to appreciate what they where learning.
On the other hand I too had to empty my cup when first learning TC I found it impossible to keep or play both arts. Even within TC styles until you really internalize TC principles the requirements for movement may seem to contradict themselves.
Some people may be able to do both, I wasn’t one of them.
HuangKaiVun- No im not that deep into the mantis system,(just started 4 months ago) i just train the forms i know over and over again, i have nothing to do after work, so i train really hard.
I only know a couple qigong excercises and the whole internal art’s thing really intrest’s
me, is it not wise to train 2 systems together?
Should i forget about it and just continue to train the forms i know?
Is their any internal training that goes hand in hand with the mantis system?
Any info would be good.
Thanks
Skard
Its not what goes in a man that defile’s him, its what comes out.
it’s fine to practice more than one system, but beginning two at the same time…
the chinese call this “two days’ work for one day’s pay”.
stick with the mantis for 6 months (if you train realllllly hard) or a year (if you go to class once a week) before even considering another art. A dedicated artist will train hours every day in ONE art. Including sitting meditation and qigong it can take me nearly 3 hours to get through my daily taiji practice regimen. If you have the time and you’re like, Wong Fei Hung or something, go ahead, but this stuff takes time and effort.
On the flip side, there are lots of short forms that are actually pretty good, and an excellent primer to a long form, which takes at least a year.
After you can actually fight with Mantis you might consider one of these short forms to supplement your training, but this is not a western art- more is not always merrier. R
Perhaps you should still check out a few internal arts. If you recognise immediately that they’re deeper and will lead you to a better place, then you may choose to abandon your mantis without reservations anyway. I don’t know - I’ve only seen one tanglang class and the instructor was young, arrogant and crap. I know people get thingy here about the superiority of different arts, but if you find a great taiji instructor and only have a crap mantis instructor, the choice seems clear to me. Same goes for the opposite scenario.
As far as short forms go, the five xingyi fists might be a good place to begin. Again, I think the key is to give it a shot and see for yourself, keeping in mind grounded’s point that you get nowhere switching styles willy-nilly.
The health standing meditations (Zhan zhuang) are the way of entering Yiquan as a martial art, or can be used solely for health, or in conjunction with another martial for helping to build internal power.
Another thought - being formless, Yiquan may be more compatible than some other martial arts based on forms.
My knee-jerk response is to stick with the Mantis simply because you haven’t trained in it long enough to give it the benefit of a doubt.
I don’t know much about Mantis, but I’m 100% convinced that such a venerable and effective system has its share of qigong training - provided you ascend to the skill levels where you can even BEGIN training that stuff.
In kung fu, lots of qigong training is withheld from the beginner because done improperly, such stuff can destroy you from within. I have no doubt that your Mantis sifu has such things within his repertoire.
On the other hand, if you’re having trouble with the Mantis philosophy and are regressing instead of improving, a change to a different art would be in order.
Yau Kung Mun is made up of two complete systems. One being Bak Mei and the other “The Style with no Name” which later was named Yau Kung Mun. Our Sijo is responsible for adding his Bak Mei(trained with CLC in old style bak mei) to the system.
Anyway, the original (for lack of a better word) Yau Kung Mun (Stlye with no name) is an internal art. The forms are done tai chi like, but it’s only taught to bai shi.
Buby
Yo Dogs ya bes chill
Cause I flip like sifu Gary and his Yau Kung Mun click, wit two kicks and three pheonix fists
Trust dukes
your gonna split from the ging running through the wrist.