im converting my training from southern kungfu to muay thai because
a) its the training i want to do more, i enjoy it more, i find it hard]
b) i feel i do more work on fitness, realism, and coordination
and for my longterm goals
a) the opertunity to fight in professional settings
b) the ability to teach a less political style
(my style at the moment is practically “owned” by the school, so my future of teaching the style would be through them, (ie getting taxed heavily by them) or not at all
what do you guys think? P.S. i still love and respect southern chinese martial arts
If you find that kung fu is not for you (which is fair enough – each to his own), can I just ask what it was that you joined your current school for?
In other words: what was it you were hoping to get out of kung fu that you feel you didn’t get (or can’t get)?
I'm not exactly knowledgeable on Tong Long techniques, but coming from a Choy Lay Fut background and moving into the Muay Thai/Grappling arena myself, the techniques are like night and day. Hard sparring for NHB type fights really enlightens you to certain realities in the fight game.
That being said, I have chosen to keep my CLF affiliation because not only do I value my relationship with my sifu and the style, I also find value in the techniques themselves. I have found that some offensive techniques translate well into NHB or the street, and some are just fluff that would work on a 140 lb high school kid whose training consisted of playing Mortal Kombat every day, but would get you killed against a MA practicioner with any degree of skill.
In the end, I drill certain techniques to be able to pass down the style with some form of tradition, although I train certain techniques more often than others because they are the ones that translate into other arts, and into real life fighting very well. There are only so many minutes in the day and instead of drilling a certain technique that never proves to do any significant damage during sparring, I would rather hit the Thai pads/banana bag, weight train/calisthenics, or drill grappling techniques myself.
My advice to you is not to discard all of your Tong Long training, but to find the techniques that have worked for you thus far, and cultivate them. This way, you not only make use of the time you have already invested in TCMA, but keep some “hidden surprises” for your Thai boxing matches. Good luck.
(my style at the moment is practically “owned” by the school, so my future of teaching the style would be through them, (ie getting taxed heavily by them) or not at all
excuse me for butting in.. so bored hehe.. im not speaking for ging mo fighter but a couple of things..
its not exactly Nan (southern) Tong Long… the style he studied is called Ging Mo Kune which was created by Malcolm Sue .. so i guess thats the meaning of “owned” by .. ie. it Malcolm Sue’s style, he “owns” it. Previously Malcolm Sue studied and Taught Chow Gar Tong Long and his ging mo seems to be heavily influenced/based by this tong long.. maybe 70 or 80% perhaps. i don’t know.
Thanks for the clarification! It sounded different from just southern style mantis from other posts i have read, that is why it sounded kind of strange to me so i wondered if it had more added to it.So i wondered if it was northern and thought to be southern.
Well said k-no.
ging mo, its not about the style as much as it is about the fighter. I do CLF and San Shou (pro) as my main style, but I also compete in Muay Thai. Many differences, and just as many similarities.
At the end, fighting is still fighting.
opne thing to remember, you wont be able to muay thai for too many years (too many injuries). Why give up kung fu?
How long have you been training at Malcom Sue??? (is Gawain Sue your instructor)???
Are you another poor sucker that’s been drawn in by the hype and given the promise of being one of his instructors (at a price)???
The reason why I ask this is because their reputation is not very good. This isn’t to say they can’t fight just that the only thing they seem to be interested in is dollar value. Do you still have to buy the different uniforms and do all the gradings and purchase all your weapons from him???
Before you ditch kung fu completely check out the other schools in Perth and have a good ask around as there is better teachers/Sifus out there not interested in your hard earned dollars. What they do want is someone prepared to train hard and put the effort in!!! I can garauntee that you will get a lot more out of it
Where do you study and what art? Just curious… I’ve gotta agree there are some good schools in Perth. I kinda lucked out with my choice, not through research, but because it was reasonably close and after ringing a few they were the most helpful on the phone. I went to visit, liked what I saw and stayed.
I have a great deal of respect for my Sifu and Sigung. I consider them experts in the art I’m learning, especially Sigung. I have no doubt that the level the seniors have attained has put them in good stead for fighting, if that’s what you’re into. They are very hard, fast and precise. You wouldn’t be professionally fighting with the school’s support, though. I doubt it anyway. As to it being a non-political style, well, can’t help you there GMF. It’s the most political style there is ;). Seniors learn a non-political style, though.
My brother also has a good Sifu (according to him). He learns in Leeming or Applecross or somewhere. I learn in Osborne Park.
Do you study with Roger Smart?? He is in Osborne Park isn’t he??
Does your brother train Wing Chun in Applecross?? I have briefly seen one of Roger’s classes but this was at least 5 years ago. I have met quite a few people who have trained with him and were happy doing so but as I mentioned I have not had a lot to do with him or his training. He has been around for quite a while tho!!
It took me a while to find a style that I was comfortable with but I feek the wait was worthwile. I train Southern in Welshpool and been there for a few years now. I enjoy it and getting a lot out of it. As I mentioned there is a few good Sifu’s in the Perth metro area. A person who does have a very good reputation is Jimmy Tsui (Tsui Wing Sing) in Northbridge. The school does not look very pretty but training is very good. A lot of emphasis is placed on application. Worth a look for anybody interested.
There are some schools out there tho that are quite happy to take your money and give you little practical use. Best bet is word of mouth or have a good look around. See if they will let you have a look in on a session. They should have nothing to hide and give you time to make up your own mind without getting you to sign a contract!!
Hello everyone and thanks for talking in my thread (There has been many unexpected comments made) and quite a few of you obviously know the Perth (Western Australia) kungfu scene quite well
Yes I did train at Malcolm Sue, and everything is fairly much according to what has been said in here…
The Instructors are top notch, but I found there to be too much “Pattern work” and not enough “fighting” or even strength and speed training, or tactics…
that being said I still have a fairly high regard for my school, and my Sifu there, who is Gawain Sue. I would never openly say anything about the way they do “business” there, but will say that includes the purchasing of fairly expensive weaponry every 3 months, and the cost of a grading fee every 3 months…
On a plus side the training is quite tough, but I actually found myself to be putting on weight (Believe it or not) during my training
The Muay Thai place I am starting training at now, is Phons Thai Kickboxing school, which is the only professionally run Thai kickboxing school in Western Australia. As well as being a nice guy, he is a good friend of one of my friends, which helps bind the training together in a more personal way.
I havn’t given up my Ging Mo Kune training, and still train with my iron rings every 2 days, if anything to keep me in (very good) shape should I choose to return to my kungfu training…
Hi Ging Mo Fighter,
Did you do any padwork with Gawain??
Most destructive hand and leg techniques in Tong Long will get you out of trouble from a Thai Boxer.
Do you study with Roger Smart?? He is in Osborne Park isn’t he??
Does your brother train Wing Chun in Applecross??[/B]
Spot on on both counts. My brother’s sifu is Michael Ho. I’ve never been there, but my brother has good reports. When I get better, I’ll cross hands with him and test his skills. Unfortunately, he’s been learning for about 4 years and I’ve only been learning for 1, even though I’m 4 years older than him and 20kg heavier. So he’ll probably kick my a$$
I have met quite a few people who have trained with him and were happy doing so but as I mentioned I have not had a lot to do with him or his training. He has been around for quite a while tho!!
Most people are very happy with Sigung Roger. He certainly can walk the walk. Gives you something to aspire to. He’s been learning various kung fu styles for 43 years now :eek:.
There are some schools out there tho that are quite happy to take your money and give you little practical use. Best bet is word of mouth or have a good look around. See if they will let you have a look in on a session. They should have nothing to hide and give you time to make up your own mind without getting you to sign a contract!!
Some of our seniors are awesome in technique and physical presence. I have little doubt as to the practicality of their technique. My current teacher is a small man, probably around 5’6", 5’7", but his techniques penetrate like a knife.
For people interested in my Sigung Roger’s classes, people are welcome to come along and watch us train. We’ve got a few chairs up the back where there are always at least a few people watching us sweat. Simo Joy will let you watch and then come and have a chat with you towards the end of a class to answer any questions you might have.
i studied Ging Mo for a few years myself. I wasnt just a ~2 day a weeker~ but i trained basically 6 days a week and was a part of the demo team (altho the demo team was mostly a big joke and the only thing i really liked about it was the lion dancing).
Ging Mo is probably one of the best styles around for raw street fighting. The power generated by some people i know is quite amazing.
but alas, the school was jsut too commercial. Honestly, 80 dollars for a 9 sectional whip when in in se asia they are like 8 dollars. PALEEZE!
I have since quit the school because of these and other reasons. But i wouldnt go past the training they provide. Now i am boxing, the training is awesome in that too much like thai boxing. but i think only fitness wise, its the only reason i am still boxing. if you could add the fitness training to the kung fu training then you’d be set! thats my opinion anyway without droning on about too much.
im just curious as to who you are ging mo fighter? and you joker?if you want you can icq me to speak? 23283717
you got something **** right about the “trainee program” they offer. sure you can become an instructor, the cost is just extreme. and i have personal experience to back that up. your basically a slave 24 hours a day. I have intimate knowledge about all this stuff aswell. imho its not / wasn’t worth it. forget about opening up your own school either. royalties, gradings. pah!
aussie john: have you done padwork with gawain? if so let me ask, how much did you pay to do padwork with gawain?
the training there is the best imho. TOO BAD THO because it drives anyone who is decent out of the school (not to be concieted or anything! heh)
Originally posted by Eddie Well said k-no.
ging mo, its not about the style as much as it is about the fighter.
It’s also about the training. Perhaps his school just isn’t doing it for him. I started longfist after leaving muay thai (school closed) and longfist just didn’t give me the same workout as MT, and the level of contact wasn’t the same. I now grapple (bjj and judo) and the old intensity I had with the MT training has returned, as well as the contact level.
At the end, fighting is still fighting.
opne thing to remember, you wont be able to muay thai for too many years (too many injuries). Why give up kung fu?
true, but some teach it more efficiently.
I know someone who fought full contact for his 50th birthday present to himself. Train smart and you’ll be okay. That applies to any style. He may not be competing at his old age, but he can definitely train.
Anyway, goodluck!
