so you don’t agree with curls, dips, rows, french curls, hammer curls, lunges, squats etc. cohen curls, preacher curl, flys, back flys…and so on which all work specific muscle groups and ion effect isolate those groups and are isolation.
I think we need to look at what you see as isolation.
I don’t advocate it as the totality of strength development and would also throw in a crap load of the body weight work such as chins and pullups, pushups, crunches, plyo et al.
so what are you guys defining as isolation and under which terms? I don’t get how all that stuff i listed wouldn’t develop strength. It’s been shown to and I’ve done it myself. Maybe I’m just not getting your perspective on it?
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;864229]so you don’t agree with curls, dips, rows, french curls, hammer curls, lunges, squats etc. cohen curls, preacher curl, flys, back flys…and so on which all work specific muscle groups and ion effect isolate those groups and are isolation.
I think we need to look at what you see as isolation.
I don’t advocate it as the totality of strength development and would also throw in a crap load of the body weight work such as chins and pullups, pushups, crunches, plyo et al.
so what are you guys defining as isolation and under which terms? I don’t get how all that stuff i listed wouldn’t develop strength. It’s been shown to and I’ve done it myself. Maybe I’m just not getting your perspective on it?[/QUOTE]
Concentration curls, for example, that isolate the biceps is an isolation move.
A chin that hist the biceps, as well as the lats and rear delts and so on, is a compound move.
Dips are compound moves, rows are compound moves, anything that gets multiple muscle groups in action are compounds.
Now, that said, even isolation moves CAN build strength, try doing a one arm DB curl with 100 lbs and tel me you are not strong.
there really aren’t a lot of exercises you can do as isolations really.
cohen / preacher / concerntartion curls only work bicep
Lying down tricep lifts only work tri’s
most other stuff is centric but still is compound as well.
so lats get a huge bit of work from say a row, but there are other muscle groups invoved in carrying out the movement.
anyway. lifting is only part oft he overall package.
fitness is what this guy needs first and that will come through activity that breaks a sweat and maintains a zone heart beat for 20-30 minute intervals.
In the end, the exact type of exercise isn’t as relevant as the fact that you are indeed exercising! 
oh, and if you smoke, stop.
if you are eating a lot of crap, stop that too and get some dietary/nutritional advice from a nutritionist.
be very moderate in alcohol consumption.
keep negative thoughts and people out of your life when possible.
work with someone who is stronger than you.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;864229]so what are you guys defining as isolation and under which terms? I don’t get how all that stuff i listed wouldn’t develop strength. It’s been shown to and I’ve done it myself. Maybe I’m just not getting your perspective on it?[/QUOTE]
almost everything in my entire workout last night was isolation movements. barbell curls with skull crushers, (chins and dips - not isolation), hammer curls with standing french presses, supersetted this weird seated bar curl with your elbows way back and only moving from stomach to chest with laying cable curls, then supersetted seated french curls with laying tri kickbacks, followed by rolling wrist curls and reverse curls.
but see … that entire workout was based purely on asthetics. i want bigger arms. tonight ill follow squats with isolation movements for the legs like leg extentions and leg curls.
sanjuro is right … isolation movements can build strength, but usually this type of strength is limited to that particular movement and has littel carry over to the real world. take curls for example … being good at the curling movement might help you hold out in an arm bar to get better positioning or lift up small children who like to hang on your forearms, but the functional application is limmited. squats have improved my jumping ability - not so much as the oly lifts, but there was definitely marked improvement as my squat went up. i dont think leg curls or leg extentions will ever provide that benifit.
also sorry for sidetracking the thread … david is right and the most important thing is to just start doing something. even if its 10 mins a day instead of 6 hours a day its a good start … once you get your foot in the door and consistantly dedicate a part of your day to fitness, no matter how small, it gets easier to build from there.
gda-
just post a couple of your skinny ass pictures, your chemo pics and your pics now. Maybe that’ll inspire him.
you were a skinny little bugger a few years ago and now you are in pretty good shape. Use that!
[QUOTE=wudangquan;863634]
So I want to get as much information as possible. If you were going to go into training a traditional martial art, more or less blind, and you were
-fat
-oldish
-had low physical endurance
-were basically inflexible
What would you do to remedy the problems as quickly as possible?
Can anyone suggest a basic training routine, without knowing to many details?
Thanks[/QUOTE]
I hear Lama Pai can help you with some of that. But if that doesn’t work, you could always try some SanDa.
