[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1225792]Please elaborate.
You’re saying instead of push ups I should be trying to increase my max bench weight?[/QUOTE]
Why would pushups be better than trying to increase your max bench?
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1225792]Please elaborate.
You’re saying instead of push ups I should be trying to increase my max bench weight?[/QUOTE]
To build strength you need to progressively increase the resistance your muscles are working against.
IN the case of push-ups, you would either need to gain weight or add weight to your own bodyweight.
EX:
You can wear a weighted vest
You can put weights on your back
Or you can use a barbell or dumbells.
Doing more push-ups means that you have more muscular endurance but not more “pure strength” ( How much you can actually lift).
EX:
Who is stronger?
The guy that can do 60 push ups but can’t left a fridge.
The guy who can do 30 but can lift a fridge?
The second guy is stronger because he can lift more weight, the first guy has more muscle endurance because he can do more push-ups.
To get stronger in the pushing away from your chest range of motion ( like the push up and bench press) you have to increase to amount of weight you can push, NOT how MANY TIMES you can push a weight that you already can push form double digit reps.
In short we have different types of strength:
Pure strength - how much we can lift
Endurance strength - how many times we can lift it
Speed strength - How fast we can lift it or, more correctly, how fast we can do any given movement.
The above are very general descriptions of course.
So…
Who has more muscle endurance, the guy who can do 60 pushups or the guy who can lift a refrigerator 60 times?
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1225817]So…
Who has more muscle endurance, the guy who can do 60 pushups or the guy who can lift a refrigerator 60 times?[/QUOTE]
you have to honestly compare on a equal basis, ie: the same activity.
in ancient china muscle is a matter of money and nutrition. the richest martial artists who could afford the elaborate wooden exercise machines and eat tons of meat, did so. all the imperial guards were huge and strong. warriors who had big muscles became so famous they became minor gods.
if you are scared of the gym, are lazy, or have been traumatized by muscle bully in childhood, feel free to avoid the gym, but dont use kung fu to justify your fear, dont twist kung fu into your girly man club.
if you are scared of lifting weights, it will hold back your progress as a martial artists.
Weight lifting is for pussies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX7p3jfr0mA
[QUOTE=Sardinkahnikov;1225875]Weight lifting is for pussies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX7p3jfr0mA[/QUOTE]
I knew this girl that…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1225806]In short we have different types of strength:
Pure strength - how much we can lift
Endurance strength - how many times we can lift it
Speed strength - How fast we can lift it or, more correctly, how fast we can do any given movement.
The above are very general descriptions of course.[/QUOTE]
This is true, but if you are talking to a person who’s never done a proper strength training regimen, worrying about the differences is really out of order. If they think that pushups and stance training is somehow comparable to weightlifting, it’s a bit like an obese person worrying about what supplements to take. “Pure strength” is basis for all else.
I think where a lot of the ‘dont lift weights’ crowd stems from may not always be more than just a tradition, but those traditions, from what ive seen/exerienced usually stem from:
disconnected body movements. sometimes you get really strong guys who are new to martial arts, and while they are strong, they have build their strength entirely out of targeted movements, and have not as of yet attained that full body movement unity that you seek in the martial arts. especially focused on in internal arts from day one. thats why this is more often than not an internal outlook. guys like that, from my experience, have a hard time re training their bodies to not move in a disconnected fashion.
Most of all the strength conditioning you do in an internal martial art style are all aimed at using your entire body as a single unit. from the very beginning, and have a very strong emphasis on this for the entirety of your training. in addition, these conditioning practices are aimed directly at application and usage of the style itself.
this is not to say that lifting is bad in anyway. i believe in lifting. but this is really where it comes from. so while this guy may be big, and strong, he is new to martial arts, and is not able to fully utilize his strength in martial application, because he has spent so many years training his body to move in these isolated sections, he now has to re-train his body to move for his new activity.
of course it really depends on WHAT TYPE of training regime they have been in.
This is NOT the case for all people who go from years of lifting to starting martial arts.
anywho, i just thot i’d drop my 2 cents by, probably not worth much but this is my take on the whole ‘lifting is bad’ ordeal. just based off of my personal observations.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1225889]I think where a lot of the ‘dont lift weights’ crowd stems from may not always be more than just a tradition, but those traditions, from what ive seen/exerienced usually stem from:
[/QUOTE]
it doesnt matter if weight lifting is bad or good for kung fu. traditional kung fu lift weights. if you want to follow tradition, lift weights.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1225889]I think where a lot of the ‘dont lift weights’ crowd stems from may not always be more than just a tradition, but those traditions, from what ive seen/exerienced usually stem from:
disconnected body movements. sometimes you get really strong guys who are new to martial arts, and while they are strong, they have build their strength entirely out of targeted movements, and have not as of yet attained that full body movement unity that you seek in the martial arts. especially focused on in internal arts from day one. thats why this is more often than not an internal outlook. guys like that, from my experience, have a hard time re training their bodies to not move in a disconnected fashion.
Most of all the strength conditioning you do in an internal martial art style are all aimed at using your entire body as a single unit. from the very beginning, and have a very strong emphasis on this for the entirety of your training. in addition, these conditioning practices are aimed directly at application and usage of the style itself.
this is not to say that lifting is bad in anyway. i believe in lifting. but this is really where it comes from. so while this guy may be big, and strong, he is new to martial arts, and is not able to fully utilize his strength in martial application, because he has spent so many years training his body to move in these isolated sections, he now has to re-train his body to move for his new activity.
of course it really depends on WHAT TYPE of training regime they have been in.
This is NOT the case for all people who go from years of lifting to starting martial arts.
anywho, i just thot i’d drop my 2 cents by, probably not worth much but this is my take on the whole ‘lifting is bad’ ordeal. just based off of my personal observations.[/QUOTE]
All those points are, as you know, based on misconceptions.
Many of them propagated by people that are trying to sell that “size doesn’t matter” to their very naive students.
[QUOTE=bawang;1225921]it doesnt matter if weight lifting is bad or good for kung fu. traditional kung fu lift weights. if you want to follow tradition, lift weights.[/QUOTE]
You’re lying…
That was developed via standing in a horse stance and doing qigong :mad:
What are those round things on the bottom right corner of the photo?
[QUOTE=Brule;1225974]What are those round things on the bottom right corner of the photo?[/QUOTE]
Ancient TCMA qigong training devices used to help the circulation of chi through the body.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1225975]Ancient TCMA qigong training devices used to help the circulation of chi through the body.
:p[/QUOTE]
LMAO the first time i ever learned about heavy negatives to increase max strength was from my first kung fu master, who had been using in on the bench and squat with his fighters since the 70’s lol,
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1225975]Ancient TCMA qigong training devices used to help the circulation of chi through the body.
:p[/QUOTE]
I thot they were ghosts.
in other news…I heard lifting weights is bad for you. :eek:
[QUOTE=Brule;1225974]What are those round things on the bottom right corner of the photo?[/QUOTE]
looks like giant black oriental cakes.
Forgive my ignorance
I have always been curious if it would be more conducive to target the resistance to the movements of a martial artist.
Example: A martial artist punching and kicking using wrist weights or resistance bands or kicking. Would this not build both strength and speed?