How Would You Deal With This Guy?

You have decided to go out to a local club/bar with your friends. It is about 1:30 AM and everyone in the bar is having a good time. Suddenly, you find yourself in a confrontation. A rather large gentleman has decided that he does not like you (for whatever reason) and is trying to start a fight with you. You have attempted to de-escalate the situation, but it is obvious he wants to fight. He is beginning to get very abusive verbally and you are pretty sure that the first blow will be coming fairly soon, though he has not touched you yet.

You have been able to discern the following: The gentleman is approximately 4 inches taller than you and has about a 30 –40 pound weight advantage on you. The gentleman has a shaved head (which may or may not mean anything) and obviously enjoys lifting weights. You think he has about 4-5 friends with him at the bar (but so do you) Since he has been in your face for about 5 minutes now, you can also smell the alcohol on his breath. You have no more information.

How would you respond ?

yeah

i’d kick him in the nackers! that’d drop him. :slight_smile: sorry, i dont know i’d probly just run away. :slight_smile: No seroiusly though if i had to, i’d kick him where it hurts. (or maybe knee him depending on how close he was) …But he wouldn’t hit me would he? i’m 5’ 4"?!

you can also smell the alcohol on his breath

This is very important. I don’t have time for a in-depth response right now, but I have always felt that a good shot in the stomach is always a great target to deal with a drunk individual. But be sure to get out of the way.

If after all attempts have been made to avoid the fight and I’m convinced it’s gonna go down,I would try to take it to the ground,
Obviously if I had no backup and he had 5 mates I would be running and not fighting.

For me I have found that using grappling I’ve been able to beat much bigger and stronger “untrained” guys easier than with striking.I wouldn’t just go for a sub though,I would throw elbows from the mount and go for a choke,I wouldn’t want to break an arm or dislocate a shoulder but if my life was threatened I wouldn’t have a choice.

ALot of people are gonna say going to the ground is a stupid idea,but under the top senario I think it would be a good strategy,I’ve used it before succesfully.

Using ground fighting on an untrained fighter I find the fight is over very quickly,he makes a mistake early on like giving his back and I can immediately sink the rear naked,if done propperly it’s 4 seconds untill napping.

This is my strategy and I don’t think it’s the only effective way so I’m not trying to shove BJJ down anyones throats,I would love to hear some of your strategies as well.

Peace :slight_smile:

I would tell him we are going to take it out side, but first i got to take a sh!t, I would then go to toilet unscrew a piece of pipe from the sink or break a chunk of the toilet. Then I would go outside Wait for his punch move quickly to the side if he throws another block that one but now I would be on his right side ill pull the pipe from my pocket and quickly crush the dull pipe into his throat, and simultaneously crunch his scrotum with my steel toe boot.:eek: Or if I wasnt in the mood for killin I would dodge his first shot crack his knee and get his face with my elbo.

Clearly noone is having any fun at this point so I’d try to leave - if he moved to follow me then I’d bring it to a head in the club rather than take risks outside. If his friends seem hostile and I don’t think I can rely on mine then I’ll definitely try and leave, talk to the bouncers and ask them to let us out another way or get them to leave first etc. If my friends are reliable or his friends are non-aggressive then I might try involving his friends and calm it down (“none of us want trouble lads, I know he’s ****ed but can’t you have a word with him” etc)

If I can’t avoid it or it’s clear that he’s going to follow me then:

establish what my trigger is going to be - next time he raises his hands or touches me or even the next time he starts talking smack (if it’s clear he’s just working himself up to hit me then why wait) - then I’ll (Geoff Thompson school of fighting) ask him a dumb question “Didn’t we use to play snooker together?” and then hit him with a hook to try and drop him while he’s working out what I just asked him. Then play it by ear until the bouncers arrive, if I was winning easily then I’d stop so that his friends are able to make the choice of not fighting. If I don’t get a chance to hit first then it’s all reaction anyway so I can’t comment.

My signature is relevant here :slight_smile:

Been there done that. I nodded concommitedly, walked to the other side of the establishment and ignored him. Then I had a long talk with my ego and told it to shut up.

In the great Shui Chiao traditon

Throw him on his head!!!

OR, hit him with the biggest thing you can find…usually, thats the ground:D

actually I’d move to the other side of the bar and chi blast him and all his mates

If there are witnesses and you strike first you may have legal problems. Be careful.

better to be judged by twelve than carried by six

Guohen, good one. Probably what I’d try.

I don’t think my friends would do too well in a mass rumble to be honest.

I think Kaitan’s response is probably best for me as well, so I would not pre-emptively strike. In a ‘safe’ environment like a club, I would definitely let the guy commit first, esp. with lots of witnesses around.

In short, I would try all possible methods of leaving the scene without fighting, including asking the barman to call me a taxi, forewarning the bouncers “excuse me, this guy is giving me trouble, I want to make it clear I’m not interested in a fight etc.”

However, if it kicked off I would rely on pure aggression seeing as he has a size advantage. Hopefully he would think better of continuing when he realised I was hitting him back.

Either way, I would book a taxi to pick me up when I was ready to go home or the club closed, even if I’d managed to de-escalate it without any trouble.

Hopefully I could keep it off the ground. If not I would be going on instinct and adrenaline.

In all seriousness though, god knows what I’d actually do when the butterflies start flying.

“Then I had a long talk with my ego and told it to shut up.” - Guohuen.

I can relate that. I find I have to wag my finger at mine. :frowning:

As for the situation, dose he have a drink in his hand, do you, are they full or empty. Where are your mates in relation to his. And as for still talking to him after 5 mins, don’t bother, get out way before that.

As far as I can tell, the alcohol on his breath means very little in this scenario. We’re in a bar! Everyone has alcohol on their breath. As long as he hasn’t touched me or made a move to do so, I’m not doing anything to him. I’m going to keep my eye on him, but move close to whatever bouncer/doorman type I can find, while trying to put tables and chairs between us. I’m going to explain that as a county prosecutor I’m not afraid of whatever he’s got (a lie, but plausible.) I’m going to have my hands up between me and him, not in a threatening manner, but with palms out as if to give a placating gesture. I’m going to hope like heck my friends are paying attention and ready to move in/dial 911 in case something bad happens. I’m going to watch him very carefully, and if he comes at me empty handed I’m going to go for a clinch and try to sweep him down. If he grabs something and comes at me, I’m going to try and take that arm with both of mine and break it and hope I can eat whatever the other arm throws at me. If he gets something out of his pocket and brings it up, I’m hitting the deck like a sack of potatoes.

At least, I hope I’d be able to think that clearly.

And yeah, phooey is right, five minutes is WAY too long.

Like the taxi idea, too.

Buy him a beer

Id buy him a beer, if that doesnt cool him down Id hit him over the head with my empty beer bottle, then proceed to drink his beer.
Gary

A couple of thoughts

I’ve seen this situation quite a bit. Chances are, the guys gonna fire off something any second. Maybe he won’t, but he probably will. I’d say if something gets this far, there’s about an 85 % chance you’re gonna get jacked.

I’d probably try to brain the guy with a beer bottle or a tight elbow to the dome. With all the people around, a throw is just too risky. Even if you get it, you’ll probably knock someone else down with his body. This of course could start a huge fiasco.

I’m real wary of the ground here as well. If the bar is crowded and a fight starts, people might run over both of us trying to get away.

If the altercation continued and people “made room” I would definately go for a throw to finish it. Probably something in a tight circle like a head mop or maybe even a tight neck surround. I suppose if a wall is nearby one could slam him into it, but there’s no guarantee on that.

There are a couple of fun ways out.

  1. say “look I can’t fight you, I’m on parol from the last time I got into a bar fight.”

  2. quietly tell you friends to hold you back then go ape sh!t like you are trying to kill the guy. Hopefully your friends will catch on and say things lile “No, not again” and “remember what happend to the last guy” Your friends and/or the bouncers will remove you then you can laugh all the way home.

  3. Put you hand down your pants. Pull it out. Take a long whiff a and say “ok I’m ready”. I doubt the dude will want to get hit by a stink palm and/or he will think you are a freak and want nothing to do with you.

In truth, most people suck at fighting and all drunks suck at fighting, they really don’t want to, those that do, want an easy fight. Pay attention and if you have sparred before no drunk should be able to hit you with their first shot. WHEN they miss grab them and get your balance and keep your head close to their body so he can’t slug you and wait for help. If you have daylight get the heck out of there, real fights suck and never end well.

I would ask him if he has health insurance.

When he says ‘what?’

I would ask him if it includes dental.

Then I would offer to buy him a drink. And tell him it feels funny when you rub a bald guy’s head.

Then I’d ask him if I saw him on the TV news walking in a PRIDE parade.

If he hasn’t swung first by this time, I figure I’d be safe and go back to drinking with my friends.

But seriously, if I could not de-escalate the tension, I would seek to confuse him and remove myself from the situation.

I had a similar situation happen to me, and just by looking serious and completely unconcerned, the other guy backed down and went back to his friends, who ALL got up and left the bar. Leaving me and my friends in peace - which was good because a friends mother was with us, and it was another friend whos band was playing. It would have been very rude to fight.

Lesson? Exude confidence. Do not allow yourself to show any fear. Most predators don’t understand this, and fear that they may have become the prey. You will need to remain highly alert however, as they may be waiting for you as a pack if they are particularly low minded people. How you conduct yourself AFTER the confrontation is just as important as how you handle the confrontation itself.

The biggest thing is not to have an ego. You are not there to prove ‘you can take him’, you are there to walk away unharmed and ideally not hurting anyone else. Avoidance is the highest level of skill.

I would be smiling, knowing that he is just some mother’s baby. Then, seeking safety in the heart of danger, would move in VERY close to him (to avoid a sucker punch) and offer to buy him a drink as a hippy such as myself would not want to challenge such a tough guy. At close range he is less of a threat. If he moves with intent i would take him down discretly and as my old biker buddies say “shame on him”. Possibly a descending palm to the stomach or if he grabs, a finger break. Remember most bars have video cameras and a good fighter will let the other guy make the first move. I would be cautious though as when i am drinking i find i do a lot of things wrong, even stupid.

Some basic ideas since you indicated that any de-esclation methods have failed.

This first aspect is if I have no weapons or improvised weapons around me to hit pre-emptive, to me weapons first, fist last.

First I would have my guard ready for a pre-emptive blow.

Keeping my hands up in a non-threating palms out neutral position or in jack benny stance so my main striking tool is closer to the target yet not gauged as a violent movement, the whole time talking, my own body slightly bladed.

All the while during this verbal judo my eyes would be doing a very fast scan to check his body and hands, seeing if there are any weapons in his hands, a folder clipped onto a pocket, a velcro case hooked on a belt, maybe a odd bulge under his jacket, anything, also trying to note the location of his friends, and any weapons I may see on them, there distance from me and the general enviroment and crowd around me for something I could use to attack with or put distance between ourselves.

From here it could go two ways, my first choice if possible would be to make my way over to the bars bouncers and get them to buy me some time to boogie out the door and into my car for a fast getaway, no bar wants a lawsuit or a maiming on its hands, if that is impossible and according to this situation it seems to be already well past that point as this character was not aware enough nor could he de-esclate the situation long enough to leave the building, a pre-emptive attack may be in order.

Since this is a multiple assaliant situation, my initiation of the attack is even more vital so that I can be in control of the first movement, my goal only to escape, if I wait for my attackers to make the first move I could most likely be hospitalised or killed, because when they do attack to help there friend it will not be one at a time, each in succession, it will be all of them at once and they will leave me very little chance of fighting back.

My pre-emptive would be swift and loud, to psyche out my opponents, aimed for either the eyes, throat, groin, nose or jaw, if I felt my life was in mortal danger due to certain aspects, such as put this in a outside street situation where there may be no help or weapons may be already played in teh bar, then I would feel no hesitation to latch onto the leaders head like a spider and bite off his nose and spit the chunk back at his buddies, not so much for the damage but for the psychological effect.

In this situation to show a pre-emptive technique I might use, my right hand would piston out in a tiger claw/face smash, like a boxers jab or you can picture throwing a baseball from a hands up position, the move is a gross motor movement that strikes the eyes and face at the same time, it is not a rake, it does not even matter if I hit the eyes as the face smash is enough, it could be one finger, three fingers, all fingers, something will get in a eye and its great for stopping forward movement. Used with the pre-emptive tiger claw, is a drop step power generation method, the drop step gets all my weight behind the first blow.

From here I may drive my knee into his sack or launch a knife hand/forearm blow into his carotid or slam a palm heel/chin jab home or a hammer fist into his nose or a wheeling elbow into his jaw or use a y strike on his voice box but that is not really the point the point is that since I made the pre-emptive attack I can make an extra choice or two based on a simple but practical strategy.

After my pre-emptive my sole goal is to make my tactical getaway, not to stand around and beat someone into the ground as his friends jump me, if a target gets in my way I hit and fight relentlessly like a escaped patient from a insane asylum , being single minded in my selection of targets and determination to drop the attacker, grabbing anything as a weapon along the way if possible to help me out.

My other tactical goal is NOT to go to the ground, ever, I must absolutely stay on my feet, if I make the mistake of going to the ground to finish the attacker, the others might descend on me, if knocked to the ground I must fight my way up immediately.

Going to the ground where there are others who can stab, beat or shoot me is IMHO tantamount ot suicide.

The second aspect, I have or can gain access to my own weapons than those would be put into the same strategy above, if I can get one of my folders I will use it like a yarrow in the pre-emptive blow, if the case was worse, like the outside and lone street encounter and if possible to deploy then the blade, if I had mace the same goes, whatever I have.

I would rather talk my way out then ever have to go through this though, I can handle a bruised ego.

Peace.