You have nipples?
a school making 6 figures is nothing, if you want your SALARY to be 6 figures, that is another story entirely…
go out and buy a coaching book, ANY coaching book, first chapter is about figuring out what your mission is, what you believe…
ie, are you just interested in having a school that makes money?
or do you want to teach the “pure, traditional art and save it and honor your teacher”
or do you have a vision?
without understanding WHY, your school will fail, then again, often understanding why is also why your school will fail…
Actually, I do have a vision. I want to structure it similar to the way high level Gymnastics clubs are structured. They have a general public program, and then the competitive one. the system is usually geared to move those with talent from the GP to the competitive program. It’s synergistic, so the stuff taught in the GP prepares them for the competitive (IE same fundementals/skills and all.
So far as teaching a “Pure” Traditonal system, I really don’t want to do that. I am a free thinker, I have alot of my own ideas. I’d prefer to teach it my own way. Yes, traditional methods are in my aresenal, however, so are alot of my own methods that would hardly be considred traditional, like modern conditioning, Gear up and spar, pad and bag work and so forth.
I have my own unique approach. Since I have no real lineage, I’d be seeling the fruits of my years of research, NOT some estoric line.
Originally posted by red5angel
I’d have to see proof of that. Most of the big TKD schools I know still have instructors, including owners that work day jobs.
There was a TKD chain here that was doing it. Around the time of the ufc boom though, something happened and he lost all of his schools except one. A buddy of mine here offers judo, karate, aikido, bjj and kickboxing classes. In addition, he holds karate/grappling tournaments as well as kickboxing/mma every 3 months or so. I know he;s 0ulling in at least six figgas. There’s another guy who I heard through the grapevine is pulling in about 80k.
Build it in the shape of a hexagon
Cardio Classes?
I’ve had an idea that could attract both men and women to cardio.
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Standard cardio class just for women (if you have time)
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“Hardcore” cardio class for anyone (men & women) - Treat it more like a boxing or Muay Thai class. Don’t have to focus on the technique, sparring, fighting aspects…but its a hell of a workout. You could run them after your kung fu classes so kung fu people could stay & you might attract some others who just want a good workout.
Not a bad idea. Of course, a good forms session would do that too. I was thinking of having two classes, one called forms & Cardio, and the other sparring and application, and just letting students come to whichever one they wanted too.
I’d encouracg them to all go to the forms class, as that is where the art comes from, THEN to the sparring to learn how to use it.
But ultimately, thye could go to whichever they like best.
There are many good ideas on in this thread…but one thing I noticed is everyone giving advice re: cardio kickboxing,this that the other. Hey, concept-ASK people what they want! Seriously. Do some market research. Ask regular people why they dont attend MA classes (time, $,convenience,etc.) Ask people what they WANT, and more importantly why they want it. EG:someone sez they want a black belt, but why? It may be they equate that with a certain level of self protection.
Here are some other general ideas:
Location,location,location-dont just look at cheap ass commercial rents, but looks at accesibility and the local demographics. With a little work u could use GIS and census data for your town to make some interesting discoveries.
Convenience is a BIG thing with people-location,time,etc.
Small, private groups-small groups of 4-10 people who want serious training/workout. Charge a premium for these, but give them your full attention.
You will need at least a small core of senior students who are loyal, hard working and SKILLED.
Kids-man, there is some money here. Maybe not just MA classes. Think about what the parents want-self esteem,self defense, this that the other for their little ones. Can you teach other things than punching and kicking or a physical workout? How about personal,moral,intellectual development?
TIME IS MONEY!-lets say u have a kick ass location,teach part time (after 530 pm) and make mad cash…stupid, fill up the unused hours! Find someone who can if you cant-a senior student? How about a different style/instructor? Who else could use that space-yoga,pilates,rehab,latin dance lessons? This take diligence to screen prospective additions and there are legal issues, but it can be done and can greatly increase cash flow.
You will need at least a small core of senior students who are loyal, hard working and SKILLED.
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Yes, my first mission is to get the skills myself. Hopefully I can start training again full time in January.
I73;
- Good ideas on location.
We have a shopping area near Univ. California, Irvine. It used to be clothes and other stuff. however, the students do not have deep pockets. Now, they have a dance school that take up several spots. An Aikido and a Judo school nicely remodeled rooms.
I was looking around to start a Tai Ji club there.
- Use of unused time for the same facility.
I saw the Aikido and Judo are empty most of the time. The dance school has schedules posted for each room for different time slots and different day of the weeks. Every time, I go there, I see people are using the rooms for hip-hop, ballet, tap dancing,Tango, what have you. The dance school has different teachers for different classes.
- Time sharing concept.
There is a Gym. They have gym classes and clubs. There are also 2 corner rooms with mattress. The owner rent the time out for TKD and Aikido classes. His interests are in the Gym. Since he has extra space, why not rent out. The teachers pay for the time. Everytime, I go there. I see different classes with different teachers and students.
Yes, this is what I did when I taught my Taiji for health classes. I basically was usieng unused time in the Westmont Pk dists dance room.
Now, I wasn’t doing 6 figures, but it gave me a base to where I was able to start building classes. If my life hadn’t gone so crazy this last year, I’d still be teaching that class.
on the importance of location…
I think REALLY studying the local demographics is important as hell in choosing a location. For example where I live a high level WT/WC/NAACP (my attempt at humor, sorry) instructor got a steal of a deal on a strip mall location-right on a major street with lots of sign space that faced the street. The problem is the part of town wasnt full of the demographics he needed (younger,male,though it did have income.) The actual street itself was a little seedy and he was next to a liqour store! Realize that if you have a great product (good training/coaching/system) people from all over town will want to come…which leads to the next problem, that while his school is on a main street its out of the way to get to from most of the city.
You really have to think about the demographic and type of student your after. EG, the best students will likely be young males (aggressive,fighting). People 25-35 are more likely to be established with more disposable income. Colleges and high schools are great sources of students, but they must be able to afford them.
I could go on and on about this (I was a geography major, go figure) but suffice it to say do some real research on location analysis methods and market research before grabbing just any old space.
The harsh reality.
Martial Arts is a mature market.
There is little to no barrier to entry for competitors. You are not only competeing against other schools, you are competeing against park districts, people in garages/parks, the YMCA, etc, etc.
Anybody can (and frequently does) hang a shingle. There is no ‘certification’ or licensing required.
There is no real brand differentiation to the general public. And when there is, it is usually TKD and now BJJ what they are looking for.
The people who are earning money are focusing thier messaging on something the public will respond to:
Look at Coach Ross’s school, ot the Degerberg Academy in Chicago.
RD - when i said get a job there, I didn’t mean as a coach - I meant at the front desk. Learn first hand how they get people in, and sign them up. You’ll learn much more being a lackey for six months than you will as a teacher.
Find those who have done well, and learn from them.
The original martial arts business concept was kids, get as many little screaming unruly buggers in your door as you could. Parents are used to paying for their kids, and once they are in, there isn’t the constant “should I be doing this” thing… you sell the kids uniforms, you have black belt clubs, you have belt tests, you get 200 kids at $100 per month, set on contracts for one year, blah blah blah
Two major problems, not all schools are in areas where a kids market existed
Trend was less kids wanted to do martial arts… Korean TKD instructors can still rely on the Korean family to bring it’s 2 to 3 kids in no matter what. If you are white, no self respecting Korean family is bringing your kids to you, sorry, and I’m married to a Korean!!!
For like 10 years, adult market was DEAD, DOA… why? well, a few simple things started popping up…
Adults don’t like uniforms, they dont’ like belt tests, they don’t like bare feet and they think the oriental mysticism is hockey… That is the general trend…
Apparently, those who do like uniforms and hockey crap ended up becoming Kung Fu students! How that happened I have no idea really…
In the 1990’s we had the Tae Bo thing, the way to get adults to do martial arts was to make it hip fitness…
Problem is, how do you run a cardio program if it is totally out of line with your established school?
I’ve seen TKD instructors trying to do Taegeuk forms to music and calling it “cardio TKD”…
Judo instructors tried to get cardio programs going… that never worked at all
As the “fad” of Tae Bo fell off, those programs that were on the edge dropped off the edge and died. NAPMA says that the market shrank like 35% after the initial wave…
It remains my largest and most successful program, why? Because I do “kickboxing” and the fit is natural. I have a contact class and I have a fitness class… it’s just about level of committment and goals. But it is technically the same program, it is a natural fit…
People will tell you the “new wave” is combatives or “self defense”. They’ll point to Krav Maga… except they won’t tell you that at lest 75% of Krav Maga’s business is a cardio kickboxing program. No, I’m not shooting in on you! 
The rest of the Krav Maga business has become self defense lesson units, actually similar to the original Gracie Jujitsu arrangement, with a strong emphasis on some basic jujistu mixed with soem simple Thai boxing
The answer is, there is no easy answer. If you don’t have a very clear vision of what you are about, and then have a very clear plan on how to turn that into a money maker, you are doomed…
somewhere around 1992-1993 I was working at my Sifu’s martial arts supply store, adjacent to the school. I was putting some weapons on the display racks. Two people walked in the front door.
The second one I recognized from some classes a year or two ago. The first one looked around for a second then in a low but prominent sand paper voice said something. I paused, kind of bewildered, and said “I’m sorry?”. He got closer, his eyes were small but then opened wider, he said the same thing again, louder this time. In a flash he reminded me of my father, A small but framed man who’s voice alone sort of made you freeze.
This time I could make out “Yim Sifu” somewhere in the middle. I knew he must have meant my Sifu. I said “oh” then went to a back door and told my Sifu someone was here to see him. My Sifu came out and rushed them to the back office. Before they went back the first man that had come through the door said something to me again, that at least phonetically sounded pretty harsh. I figured I must be in trouble for something I did.
Sometime later they all walked back out. My Sifu introduced his “uncle” to me, told me how he was a student of Bok Mo Jiu (our system’s 6th gen inheritor) then breifly told the story of how that came to be. He then said " you know his student, David right?". I was puzzled at first because I thought he was my classmate, I later learned he was cross-training which after all was explained made perfect sense. Anywhoo that was my first introduction to Sifu Chan Tai San and David Ross at the same time.
No special story or anything, this thread just made me think of it.
EDIT: I meant to post this in the Chan Tai San story thread, if a mod could move it, I’d appreciate it.
RD - when i said get a job there, I didn’t mean as a coach - I meant at the front desk. Learn first hand how they get people in, and sign them up. You’ll learn much more being a lackey for six months than you will as a teacher.
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Yes, you are right. this is the same reason people often quite good jobs to earn $4.50 and hour as a runner on the floors of the board of trade (Seen this happen, we all though he was nuts, now he makes more in a month than the rest of us do in a year).
You are right about learning how to bring in and sign them up. I am already good at getting students to sign up once I get them in, and I am good at keeping them. My concern is how do I get them in to begin with, and in large enough numbers to build a school quickly. Not to mention funding that project.
So far as the programs and such, I don’t think that will be a problem, I already have an idea of how I want to do that. I want to offer 2 Kids classes, one 2 days a week for the beginners, and the other 3 days a week for the rest. From there, I want to do a forms and conditioning class, then application and sparring. The application and sparring will of course be directly related to the forms class that just ended. I also thought that I could offere 40 minutes of warmup and conditioning, followed by a 40 minute forms class, and then 40 minutes of application. If the more serious student took all 3, that would be a good 2 hour lesson. This gives the student the ability to do as they pleased based on thier own level of motivation, and desire.
I also thought that I could set my lesson fee’s based on the number of hours a student is in class. For each hour of training, they could get like 30 minutes of open time.This would be a bouns especially to those who are really serious as they would get alot of open time, and the less dedicated ones would get less.
Like Ross said, ranks and uniforms are not nessarily the way to go. I think the old way, of no rank system, or uniform may very well work better for me for the adult program, especially if I promote it as being the “old school” Kung Fu. I was thinking of selling a Royal Dragon T shirt and some basic Kung Fu pants rather than the silk PJs for those who want something school related to train in. Ranks and uniforms would defenetly be a must for the kids Kung Fu program. However, for the adults, think a certification isued priviately for each level with no or little outward sign would be better.