Zantesuke.
Reread, my Post.
It never stated ALL.
Yip Man was a GrandMaster, but did he call himself so or was the title bestoyed by his Peers??
SifuAbel.
Why does your screename include “Sifu”??
Why do you want anybody to know that you are a Sifu??
If you are a true “Sifu” People will recognise the fact from your Posts and thus you don’t need to include it in your Screenname.
I think im falling in love with old jong.
I think it is a matter of something being lost in the translation… for some odd reason, there is this tendency in wing chun to refuse to lose the center line even for a second. I mean, from the short Emin-Cheung tape, you see one man rushing and the other standing, unwilling to retreat, position himself and resume. Now I am not talking huge leaps and bounds.., I am talking about realizing that once someone is past your hands. If that is all you know, you are f$#ked. Surely wing chun did not base its principles solely on doing nothing else then trap to clinch.
I personally beleive that a true master would A. Not be surprised regardless of his age, and B. use a “slippery” floor as an excuse BECAUSE he/she would know that on the streets or battlefield there are no such things as prime conditions, 100% efective techniques, or dictated terms of engagement.
There are masters in their 70’s who do not fit the label “old man” . Cheung was in his 60s (if that), age is not an excuse. Speed fades as one gets older.. a master is an individual who adapts the art to himself as he evolves. Saying wing chun is only a game of speed is in my opinion, not doing it justice. Who knows..maybe Bruce did breathe some light into Wing chun because he forced people to reevaluate the art and learn to move beyond its chi-sao games and “you’ll always win of the center line, don’t lose the center line, you are screwed if you lose the center line”. (and yes i know bruce agreed with the center line..i am merely using him as an example)
“Masters” who only train one range should be sure that they know the LIMITATIONS of that range. If they do..they’d probably know better than to get in a ring, grapple, or clinch. “Master” is after all, mastery of what it is you are learning. IF you master the hands, you qualify…just a word.
Maybe, just maybe because the attacker does not care what the title of the person is, that titles are just that…titles, fights are non-baised, master, grandmaster, uber-master, if you do not train for that situation you will be at a disadvantage, even then their are other things to consider.
Any body can get their ass whooped.
Yawn
Sun,
The statement is mute. To say one body of knowledge is equal to one man’s ability is misleading. The only thing that really counts is individual ability. If the person in question has a mastery over himself then you can only measure that against the opponent.
The question stands; who exactly gets “taken down at will”? I’d like to know.
Red,
Is your name so much more humble than mine? Don’t be stupid.
I have that in my name because my teacher saw it fit for me to have the title. If you don’t like it, take it up with my teacher. If you think a person using their rank in a cybername is fake, that’s your issue not theirs. I think after 20 years, in the same school, I deserve it. I leave it in because this is a Martial arts forum and I represent my school as a teacher. Whether or not you like me or agree with me is not a concern of mine. And, I don’t have to prove JACK to you.
Why should I hide it? I’m being honest.
Better yet, why DO YOU hide it? Are you not a teacher? Have you not been training for 23 years? Are you on the same level, experience wise, from someone that started 6 months ago?
Why should a teacher play a poussyfoot game around the fact that they are a teacher? When I meet teachers in person, I am not so arrogant as to call them by their first name just because they don’t practice my style or if I feel their system isn’t “effective” enough. This board has NEVER exibited ANY respect to those who teach. For the most part, this board is filled with know-it-all petulant children that get off on being anonymous.
I am NOT anonymous, I AM a teacher.
Re: Yawn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuAbel
Is your name so much more humble than mine? Don’t be stupid.
My Name is humble and a joke for people that know me.
Got it actually while painting a Roof and had “Red Hands” afterwards.
My GF at that time than mentioned that I now had true “Red Fists” as I was studying some Hong Quan at that time.
I have that in my name because my teacher saw it fit for me to have the title. If you don’t like it, take it up with my teacher. If you think a person using their rank in a cybername is fake, that’s your issue not theirs. I think after 20 years, in the same school, I deserve it. I leave it in because this is a Martial arts forum and I represent my school as a teacher. Whether or not you like me or agree with me is not a concern of mine. And, I don’t have to prove JACK to you.
Sifu is was a Student calls his Teacher, unless you can now claim Sifu as a profession on your Income Tax.
“Sifu” is an honorific term used as a sign of respect and thus never used by one to refering self.
Better yet, why DO YOU hide it? Are you not a teacher? Have you not been training for 23 years? Are you on the same level, experience wise, from someone that started 6 months ago?
No, I am not a Teacher.
Yes, I have been studying MA for 23 yrs.
Does that make me better than a new Student, no, it only means I went down further the MA road than he has.
Why should a teacher play a poussyfoot game around the fact that they are a teacher? When I meet teachers in person, I am not so arrogant as to call them by their first name just because they don’t practice my style or if I feel their system isn’t “effective” enough.
Why should I call ANYONE a Teacher /Sifu when I don’t learn from him or have no relation to him??
They are simply MR. X to me.
This board has NEVER exibited ANY respect to those who teach. For the most part, this board is filled with know-it-all petulant children that get off on being anonymous.
Aren’t all Online Boards like that??
SifuAbel,
Here’s one for you: I happen to agree with most everything you said.
Although I don’t believe that a teacher deserves my immediate respect… but that’s an issue for another day 
Oh geez, what a wanker!
Red,
You should, beacuse they are somebody’s teacher. I would like you to go into a Dojo in japan and NOT call the sensei by his title. I bet you’d get your ass beat. Or at least you would be treated with disfavor and lose face. It shows you are not a teacher. It shows you have no respect for anyone. It shows you are arrogant and self absorbed. You should research more before you make fun of red fists.
Yes, the internet is like that and you are taking full advantage. You need not reply.
Merry,
That is a major flaw in your character. Not to respect a person because you think they are inferior to you. Not to show respect is to not respect the body he/she represents. Which is bigger than both of you.
I don’t really understand where you decided that I believed others were “inferior” to me, considering I said nothing of the sort. Nor did I even IMPLY it. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
What I said, essentially, is that a teacher doesn’t deserve my respect automatically. They have to earn it just like everybody else.
By the same token, I expect to have to earn their respect as a dedicated student.
I will approach him or her exactly as I approach anybody else–with the respect due any other human I might meet. Until I am shown otherwise, that’s what they get.
Now, if you are discussing DISPLAYS of respect, that is a different issue. I would never walk into a school and behave as an arrogant *****, suggest other ways of doing things, disobey the instructors wishes, challenge students or teachers, or refuse to participate in any ceremonial procedures they might have etc. That’s simply bad manners.
I’m in the military and I liken it to that very much. I might have to obey and behave in a respectful manner to a senior, because that is appropriate behavior. HOWEVER, whether or not that person has MY respect is dependant on personal qualities that have nothing to do with their rank.
Re: Oh geez, what a wanker!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuAbel
You should, beacuse they are somebody’s teacher. I would like you to go into a Dojo in japan and NOT call the sensei by his title. I bet you’d get your ass beat. Or at least you would be treated with disfavor and lose face.
1.) The Term “Sensei” does NOT mean
Instructor or Teacher.
It literally means “The one that has gone before”.
But is used as an honorific for showing respect to people that are older, have more experience and other factors.
Better YOU study some Japanese Customs before replying and trying to correct people.
In Japan I also refer to my Doctor as “Sensei” or anbody else with specialised knowledge.
It shows you are not a teacher. It shows you have no respect for anyone.
I show respect to People that earned it.
And by your last 2 Posts you have shown that you deserve very little.
It shows you are arrogant and self absorbed. You should research more before you make fun of red fists.
When did I make fun of “Red Fists”??
But than I guess anything I will say will get you worked up.
Great emotion control for an MA Teacher.
Also a very nice role model for the newer MA Students here.
Yes, the internet is like that and you are taking full advantage. You need not reply.
Oooh, did I hit a sensitive Button.
Funny, most Guys that use screen names like you react the same way to the same question.
Makes me wonder why.
Merryprankster.
I am with you on the aspect of giving
“respect”.
Respect is something that needs to be earned and is not given or assumed automatically.
And, yes, I will show respect when required in a specific setting.
SifuAbel.
As for me being “anonymous”.
Lets see my Profile shows more details and Info about me than does yours about you.
I got nothing to hide. How about you??
Plus, I never claimed any high skill/knowledge in any of the Arts I learned, nor do I expect to be respected by a few Online personalities.
Nor do I think that my Posts will have any significant impact on any people I might meet online.
But, yes, I know I am arrogant and don’t respect anybody.
Why I don’t teach?
Hmm, there are a few reason:
1.) Don’t want to.
2.) Haven’t reached a high enough level in some arts to be qualified to teach.3.) Been traveling on Business and moving between Countries a bit.
No need to reply. We don’t want your Blood pressure to go up.
I always thought respect began with ones self, humbleness and all the other higher attributes IMO are things within. people can see this in a person.
Screen names funny things they can say a lot or very little about the poster, it’s the words that go with the name that I find interesting.
what happened to the org topic 
Bamboo Leaf.
Original Topic got boring.
Mouth-Fu more fun, but looks like my sparring partner decided to quit.
Ok, we now return you to your scheduled programming.
Re: Oh geez, what a wanker! It shows.
Red:“Great emotion control for an MA Teacher.”
What emotion? I feel no emotion toward you. You are less significant to me now than you were 2 posts ago. Any emotion you percieve is a self reflection.
I know what sensei means.
It shows you have no respect for “those who have gone before”. That’s the point. lost face.
Merry,
You are confusing respect with ability. Your words have betrayed you. Your sense of respect is fake. Outward displays for politness are fake.
Respect is an attitude.
It has no condition. You can murder a man, hate him or wage war and still act with respect.
This is something which is evident to me now.
Note: I am cold saying this, there is no emotion to cling to. Nothing to imply.
What emotion? I feel no emotion toward you. You are less significant to me now than you were 2 posts ago. Any emotion you percieve is a self reflection.
So, why do you keep replying than.
Got a point to proof, need to show you are the better man??
Methinks, you got an confidence problem and need to proof yourself.
Hence the “Sifu” in your screenname and the petty insults.
I know what sensei means.
It shows you have no respect for “those who have gone before”. That’s the point. lost face.
Actually, it shows how little you really know about Japanese Culture and btw your record is stuck.
BTW, if I am so insignifcant put me on your “ignore” list, I don’t care either way.
Have a good one, Oo great One.
I think MA Fanatic should provide us with examples of which masters have been taken down at will so that we can analyse the specific details of the beat downs.
Without this info we are all just speculating.
Abel - I’m suprised you still come here. I’m sure there was a thread about 4 months ago where you said you were never coming back because you were sick of the levels of immaturity, or something like that.
yawn
Originally posted by scotty1
[B]
Abel - I’m suprised you still come here… [/B]
…me too.
Scotty1
I think MA Fanatic is reffering to the one and only example he has which is the dubious one of Wiiliam Cheung, and I feel that issue has already been covered on these pages severla times before. I have sent messages to MA Fanatic, and have to say that the fanatic bit is probably closer to the truth than anything. That implying that like most fanatics they are intrinsically un blalanced as in fanatcism. He feels that his couple of years in studying Wing Chung was all that was needed and that he needed no more, therefore cross-training and UFC are the way forward. However each to his/her own. Experience usually does dictate to us all which direction we think is best to go in. Yet the ego rarely has our best and deepest intentions close to its heart.
Repulsive Monkey
I think you’re right about MA fanatic.
Its a bit sad to think that his one stupid comment started this thread, which then degenerated into a slanging match between red fists and sifu abel.
Although I do have to say that Sifu Abel does seem to be the common factor in a lot of KFO slaging matches. Or am I thinking of someone else?