technical question: how do you think kicks are used to your best advantage?
i’m not looking for the advantages of kicking over punching (range, power, etc.). i’m looking for tactics that you use to put them to best use.
do you use them to keep an opponent at bay? to create distractions as a way to close in with the hands?
[fill in the blank]
Kicking
Kicking is of course best done below the waist only, the old upper and lower rule. Great for breaking knees, stomping on insteps, and distracting attention from doing so.
Trying to use them to keep the opponent at bay is not a great idea in my opinion. You will eventually get rushed and taken off balance, or leave yourself open. You should attack with the upper and the same time as the lower or split second off.
Regards,
Gary
Think harmony of hands and feet.
When I fight your legs are going to be harassed by my legs constantly. I love to sweep, there are unlimited sweeps, takedowns and traps with kicks.
As I charge in for an attack, as my hands are hitting you I am chaseing your legs.
Not to mention roundhouse kicks to the thighs.
Considering how many ways we can strike with kicks, I use them all the time.
i think kicks should be used when the distance is right. if you are in a range to use a weapon then to not use it is wasting time in ending the fight. an example is when someone is closing in on you or when, after and exchange inside, the are backing out.
but some people look for that and will punish the leg you kick with. fine. it takes experience and faking to find if this is the case, but if so then kicks can be great fakes to set up other attacks.
so distraction, yes. keeping at bay, kind of. more just using it when it can be used.
for me, a kick is best used when ill hit my opponent with it 
as i do wing chun, which is rather close range, most kicks dont work in the range that im most used to (knees however are another story), so i use my legs within that range more to offbalance and gain control than to strike
when the range is a bit ****her away, then i do low line kicks, if i can get a good shot in if not ill charge back in
but in general i like having both my feet close to the ground (for better balance)
peace
travis
In sport fighting it is best to use them in combination with the hands. But they can also be very effective at keeping a fighter at range.
The Best example of the effectiveness of kicks is to check out the clips on www.marvinperry.org . He is the best kicker in US San Shou by far and uses them as offence and defense.
You can also see in his fights how easy it can be to beat leg kicks if you train correctly. The clip of Albert Pope also shows how kicks thrown without a good set up can result in your getting slammed.
Using a kick to keep a skilled apponant at bay can be quite dangerous. Why?
Well, you haven’t controlled them yet. So in a sense what are you doing? Lobbing something out there in the hopes …
If you lob something out there against the wrong person it will be struck. Taken advantage of for you have now opened yourself.
Also, most people kick improperly, view that Hung Gar website that was being discussed a few days ago: weight back, lening back for extention, to get that “point!” from the safest distance possible.
I think low and deep, weight/intention going forward is better, and only after making their hands busy.
One of my tactics: Shoot the left up high at chin/neck level, but almost like throwing at a forearm. Totally useless, but when they go to block it, shoot in the right underneath. Maybe they block that too. But that was just the precursor to the low kick.
Hands are for fighting, kicks are for killing. Troops and heavy artillary. Set them up in the trenches and then rain down on them.
"Well, you haven’t controlled them yet. So in a sense what are you doing? Lobbing something out there in the hopes … "
nice, evolutionfist. that’s EXACTLY what i was thinking.
thanks for all the responses so far gang. i agree with the vast majority of it. low line kicking. hands in concert with feet. sweeps. the whole bit.
justa man also mentioned something that’s been on my mind lately. closing first, to try and preserve balance and defense, and then kicking as the opponent retreats. (obviously, this is a tactic against the people who do retreat, and a safeguard against falling prey to those who don’t).
anyway, keep 'em coming.
stuart b.
AP:
By ‘kicks’ are you also including knees?
Entirely depends on the environment, scenario and opponent.
My kicking arsenal is used mainly to bridge, or punish the opponent for his attempt at closing or bridging, or any change of distance that allows a kick. I am a big fan of knees and elbows. So when the range is right, they pop out and goto work very quickly - my legs punish the opponents legs for being so close, not really a ‘harassment’ - punishment - I will go for knees, ankles etc.
So range is of course a large factor affecting how the kicks are used, when, and which ones.
So basically kicks, or more basically, legs, are used just like the hands, just to the targets closest to them - usually the opponents lower body.
E-fist–
Good post. However, the idea that leaning back and getting extension is somehow “wrong,” isn’t right. It depends.
The thai round kick and the thai push kick both use leaning back a little bit (or a lot) in the execution of the technique. It’s both a counter weight to the kick to help maintain balance, and it serves as a defensive measure against incoming counterattacks
In the thai round kick, you lean back more the higher you want to kick. Since the power of the kick comes from hip torque, leaning back doesn’t really take much out of it–it doesn’t take any out of it actually. You lean back just a little so that if your opponent steps in to throw leather at your face, you’re out of KO distance.
In the push kick, you lean back for the same reasons, however, at the end of the kick you put your weight DOWN to drive your opponent back. Leaning back a bit actually helps load that somewhat.
Neither are “point” kicks.
More on ‘opponent’:
How kicks/legs are employed will vary mainly on the opponent:
skilled or unskilled?
grappler or kicker?
striker?
jma?
weaponless or?
My ‘generic’ game plan would be to deal wth my opponents oncoming intentions, whatever that might be, and ending the encounter as soon as possible. This might mean kicking his advancing shin, while breaking his extended arm/fist/whatever, then ‘collapsing’ into the opponent with knees, elbows, takedown, choke, whatever.
Of course thats definitly not sporting, and how kicks/legs would be used in a competition type venue would be very, very different, and would also be different according to the different competitions (UFC type vs kickboxing type.)
yenhoi,
in this context, i wasn’t including knees, no. i’m a big fan of them myself. but i was thinking specifically about range considerations.
that said, i’d like to expand the topic now. so if we want to discuss knees as well, groovy.
knees:
Mainly used once in the clinch, sometimes while bridging to the clinch, or exiting the clinch.
Can attack opponent’s:
thighs, knees, waist/hips, abdomen area, and even to hands and head - which will usually require the assistance of your own hand or hands (or elbows) to grab and pull/push down into the knee.
Also good when opponent is doubled over or on the ground. When opponent is just doubled over I would prefer to use elbow or (shin) kick rather then knees. Thai has alot of pulling opponent and opponents various limbs into the knee. So does filipino martial arts, however most of them would be running you over with elbows and knees rather then pulling you into things (knees.)
Also knees used in defense (also elbows) -
a slightly repositioned knee can quickly(painfully) fowl up some forms of attack against you.
just thoughts.
I use them if I have to fight a boxer or heavy hiter. I kick them in the nee with a side kick or front kick and sometimes a round house kick a couple of times then close the gap then eather throw them or grapple.
Head kicks are the most effective. All of the head kicks stop the fight instantly, but the low kicks just cause some pain.
Gilbert Yvel beat Garry Goodridge in 5 seconds with a head kick. Goodridge was completly unconcious. Head kicks are the most dangerous kicks.
Muay thai fighters use head kicks all the time. Even a grazing blow from one of their roundhouses can cause a knock out. That’s why they always keep their hands up so high.
Muay thai does alot of low kicks. They dont’ block the leg kicks with their arms becuase that would leave their head open so they just do a leg check to block the low kicks. That way they can keep their hands up. Muay thai has the most advanced kicking for all hieghts including leg kicks, body kicks, and head kicks, and they have the best method of defending those kicks.
Muay thai is the ultimate striking system but they are extremely vulnerable to a grappler who takes them down and easily beats them from the ground. A combination of BJJ, Wrestling takedowns, and Muay thai makes the ultimate style.
www.bjj.org/images/royce-delucia.jpg Here is a picture of a shaolin 5 animals kung fu stylist losing to Royce Gracie a BJJ stylist.
Royce pulled guard and easily arm barred the kung fu stylist as he tried to stand up.
I like to use kicks most when my opponent is backing up. If he’s rushing in on me, I’m much more likely to use my hands. But, if he’s shufled back for some reason or if I’ve (God willing) knocked him back that’s when I try to launch a kick in. It’s become a real reflex for me. I find it very likely that I will knock them down then.
JWT
Merry P, always interested in your comments. Of coarse I respect the Muay Tai boxer, they train like dogs. Have to respect there legs.
Funny, this web thing. Because its really hard to convey actual implementation of ideas, and though I’m a writer and beleive the language is equiped to do so, time and motivation is a factor.
Ba Gua kicking, or actually, E-Chuan kicking, implements a technique to gain lenght and leverage, by using the hip (Hsing-I Chicken step) where one gains depth while staying out of range. For a split second one may look like they are leaning back, but the force and momentum is going forward, or actually, in this case, breaking away and outside, but the kick is going in, to counter a round house. Round house the roundhouse while breaking.
If a kick catched me off guard, I’d prefer to step back, let t land and then attack instantly. Many times I’ll raise my knee forming a wedge, sort of like a take care of anything down there technique, while engaging the hands. I like to get tied up with my apponant. So maybe that’s why I prefer this stratagy.
PS, Ralek, I’ll be in Baltimore Thurs. night. I’m staying at the Marriott I believe if you want to get dinner, show me some BJJ. Always interested.
Baltimore is way too far away and it is a ghetto in Baltimore. How about you come to Frederick?
