I’ll probably go to hell, or have a ‘visit’ from our local, for this but:
http://www.totallychristiankarate.com/belts/love_white.htm
I think I have almost all of that armor on one of my Diablo II characters…
‘ba dump bump’
that being said…I bet these guys have better retention rates than your ‘average’ school.
religious frenzy is scary.
That’s a very cool video, actually…
I recognize the music as the theme music from the Jet Li movie “Once Upon a Time in China”… it may be a more traditional song than that… but I do recognize the background music… that music fits over forms very well…
Thanks for posting this link…
FG
Historically, evangelical Christian types have done everything from mix a bunny rabbit and a fertility festival with the ressurection of Christ and call it Easter… all the way to stooping so low as to extremely over-emphasize the three wise men giving Christ a few presents (creating the largest capitalistic season in the world), and calling it what we now know as Christmas and the birthday of Jesus, in order that they could somehow fit in a few scripture verses and convince people to convert to Christianity.
The early Roman Church destroyed God only knows how much of early Greek philosopher’s writings… because they threatened the teachings of their version of what they said was the Bible.. the same folks also tied people to a stake and burned them, tortured folks until they confessed to things they didn’t do, all in the name of evangelism…
So, stealing Chinese culture, raping it of any Buddhist teachings, and mixing in a dose of Jesus doesn’t surprise me…
Some of those people would merely claim it is “Creative Christian Evangelism”…
Kind of hard to pass on the true teachings of Da Mo, when you claim Buddha is dead, and Jesus Lives, and Buddhism is for the birds… not exactly traditional martial arts…
Somewhere along the way, somebody has to go to the torture chamber… and by scraping off all of the Buddha and Buddhism out of their system, and inputting Jesus, they put Buddha in the torture chamber, demand that he convert to Christianity, and pervert the true meaning of traditional Chinese Maratil Arts…
If they had any guts at all, they could at least make it into a “Comparitive Religion” course, and still teach the true Buddhist philosophies…
But Christianity is an extremely intolerant religion… it’s their way or the highway when it comes to the view of God and the Universe…
On another note… (honk…)
About this fellow that may have possibly had some compromising issues with young children (as revealed in a previous post)… have the authorities been notified, and did the children give any kind of testimony to the law enforcement community?
His social security number could be traced if he is using it… credit cards can find him… if he sends anybody an e-mail, the header of the e-mail can identify his IP address and physical location…
There are ways to track him down if you need to find him… especially if he uses the Internet at all…
There are no secure computers…
If someone knows what they are doing, they can find him just by his tracing usage of the Internet… his web page might be a good place to start…
Hope they get that guy… I hate perverts… especially the kind that mess with young people…
FG
Yet Another Christian Contradiction
Hey you guys remember the “POWER TEAM”? They were a bunch of steroid takin jocks all high on roids and jesus and they would tour around breaking boards and big blocks of ice and ripping phone books in half and all for “JESUS”?
I saw an excerpt of one of their “motivational” routines where the guy would go in to some sort of drill seargent speaking in tongues rant just before he broke his head over a big block of ice. when he managed to crush the ice with his thick skull he would dance around with a “PRAISE JEEEEEESUSSSSSSSSS” yelling at the top of his lungs and what is even scarier, the whole crowd would be yelling and praising him as well.
my GOD, why was christianity invented? i mean was it some kind of cosmic practical joke to put upon humanity?? I mean i have this vision of the future of people with green goo oozing out of thier nostrils and head with tubes attached filled with some weird blue colored bile and this wired look in their eyes and a nice tattoo of a cross embedded on their forhead. everyone is bald and wears the same outfit. and they ALL have this dazed expression and putter about murmuring incoherent words.
oh yeah and in the cities on a loud speaker being played over and over again is Josh Grobin singing “YOU Raise Me Up”.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :rolleyes:
Peace,TWS
The Chinese speaking church near where I work,
They have simplified Yang Tai Chi, and some basic long fist only.
They dun like lion or dragon dancing. because it is a mimickry of an “idol”.
Wushu lessons are offered as “extra-curriculum” so are Chinese fan, chopstick folk dance, calligraphy and paint brush painting and of course, Chinese cooking etc
I don’t agree with the mixing of Christianity to any and every activity, and I say that as a Christian. Yes, yes, I’m “one of those.” :rolleyes: However, I don’t believe in the mixing of ANY religion with Martial Arts. I don’t mind bowing to Grandmaster Yeh’s photo simply because for me it is a sign of respect for our style’s roots, not a Confucian or Buddhist thing.
Noted Chinese Martial Arts historians such as Tang Hao did extensive work trying to dispel the NUMEROUS, MYRAID misconceptions and outright hyperbole that surrounds the Chinese Martial arts, including the tying in of religion to those practices. Shaolin Kung Fu has buddhism in it NOT because Buddhism is a necessary component of Kung Fu, but because the monks at the temple were, well Buddhist monks. You’ll notice that most other Kung Fu styles such as BaJi, PiGua, Hung Gar, CLF, etc. have Buddhist and Confucian elements in much smaller dosages than traditional Shaolin (Taoism is more prevalent in Bagua, and to a lesser extent XingYi, and Taiji.) This is because the practitioners, the people who brought these arts to the U.S. came from a region in the world where those practices are part of the culture. I might not agree with those religions, but as long as I’m not being preached at during class, or told “Hey you, bow to this, but do so in a manner of worship, not just respect.” I don’t mind.
Other CMA styles such as Long Fist (Chang Chuan) have very little religion in them at all. Take the Jia Men branch of Chang Chuan (also known as ChaQhuan or ZhaChuan) This style came from China’s Muslim minority, but has become one of the most popular styles of Long Fist. Many instructors in this style, however are not Muslims. So you will probably not find a lot of Islam in those schools.
In a nutshell, the “true teachings of Da Mo (bodhidarma)” have very little place in Kung Fu. If you want to practice Self-detatchment, that’s totally cool. But the Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths (among other doctrines) have nothing to do with the Practice of Martial Arts in and of themselves. If you REALLY want to learn the teachings of Da Mo, and of Buddha, I have no doubt there is a buddhist temple or buddhist group of some sort in driving distance. Da mo didn’t bring Kung Fu to the Shaolin Temple. The Chinese practiced Martial Arts LONG before 495 A.D.
Oh, and if you do go to a Buddhist temple, try not to be too surprised if you find that those monks wearing orange robes know nothing about Kung Fu. And don’t ask them about it either. They’re probably very patient, but if I were a monk (or a buddhist) that stereotype would get old REAL fast.
wow, thanks for giving us the inside scoop on the Shaolin Temple!!
zen buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion.
or it’s also been described as simply a way of controlling nervous impulses.
thanks again. How long were you at the temple?
No I have never been to the Shaolin Temple. But exactly which of my observations do you feel necesitates my having been there? I’m confused…
Upon further investigation, perhaps it was this part-
“Oh, and if you do go to a Buddhist temple, try not to be too surprised if you find that those monks wearing orange robes know nothing about Kung Fu. And don’t ask them about it either. They’re probably very patient, but if I were a monk (or a buddhist) that stereotype would get old REAL fast.”
Notice I said A BUDDHIST temple. I have no doubt if you go to Shaolin you will find monks practicing Kung Fu. However, there is only one Shaolin Temple, and only a handful of its legitimate branches exist in the world. Most Buddhist establishments (particularly in the U.S.) however, do not feature Martial Arts of any kind. They tend to focus on, get this, BUDDHISM.
As far as Buddhism as-not-religion I can only speculate. Much of the information I have read on Buddhism in general and Chan in particular concerns various subjects such as Reincarnation, Nirvana (as a state of mind of course.) gods, goddesses, etc. Somehow, I think the Buddhist practitioners in Asia tend to take it much more seriously than the typical “hipster” view on it. “Wow, check me out, I’m meditating. Aren’t I all cool and transcendental? Look, I’m a vegetarian! That makes me really deep. Right? Right???”
As far as Buddhism as-not-religion I can only speculate.
there ya go. the pearl of wisdom.
I think the Buddhist practitioners in Asia tend to take it much more seriously than the typical “hipster” view on it. “Wow, check me out, I’m meditating. Aren’t I all cool and transcendental? Look, I’m a vegetarian! That makes me really deep. Right? Right???”
i wouldn’t know about all that hipster jazz…tht doesn’t have **** to do with me.
I have no doubt if you go to Shaolin you will find monks practicing Kung Fu.
is that a flip-flop or more of a back-pedal? “I can only speculate…” lol.
No I have never been to the Shaolin Temple.
by the way I am talking about Zen (Ch’an) buddhism exclusively.
yes. there are many types of Buddhism which hold different beliefs. Zen focuses on our lives here on earth, and the actions we can take to bring a better world for everyone into realization. Yes, the eightfold path is a simple guideline.
If you want to look deeper into the core of zen in particular, learn about the first, second and third nen. These are components of one’s thoughts and how they sort of add up to bring us to the mental state we arrive at.
Nothing to do with Tibetan buddhism, with its prayer wheels, danicng in demon masks etc. Well they are related, but very different in the focus of their practice. sorry if i missed a post in between, i was interrupted here. i will return
** and no i am not speculating. I am referring to material from Katsuki Sekida’s “Zen Practice,” which i wish i could find right now but we moved and it is still packed away so i can’t take it out and go directly form it.
btw, there is much merit in vegetarianism. I am a bad buddhist and eat meat though.
i wouldn’t know about all that hipster jazz…tht doesn’t have **** to do with me.
Nor did I say it did. I love debating and all, but please don’t take offense to something that was not directed at you.
Which, by way of convenient segue leads me to…
is that a flip-flop or more of a back-pedal? “I can only speculate…” lol.
In order for the snippet you referred to have been either, I would have had to, at some point said “Hey there’s no Kung Fu practiced at Shaolin Temple.” or something along those lines. What I SAID, in essence, was that Da Mo wasn’t the grandaddy poobah of Kung Fu and [SIZE=“1”]oh yeah, the one who brought Chan Buddhism to China.[/SIZE]
I still believe that it was the Chinese who brought Kung Fu to Shaolin, not the other way around. When people of questionable character sought to do some self-searching, retirement to a temple to live the life of a monk was one path. Or if they committed some minor crimes but wished to have the authorities off their backs, they could take the vows, don the robe, and they were given pardon. Such people had a tendency to be practitioners of Martial Arts. In the temple setting, where killing was not allowed, they could get together and practice and exchange skills. Hence the creation of styles like Da and Xiao Lohan.
i agree with your take on the history of kung fu. The Chinese would have needed some means of combat all the way back to the emergence of a population there, at least in view of human nature & the naturally uneven distribution of resources. It would be wrong to assume that the arrival of Da Mo at Shaolin in 495ad (?? something like that) marked the beginning of martial arts development in that region or all of modern day CHina for all it’s worth
it is hard to read tone/intent through this medium. it really did seem as though you were painting me as a superficial pop-culture buddhist. My sister for a short time was interested in the chanting Buddhst route (na-myoho-renge-kyo, Tina Turner etc.) and that did not last so long lol. not that i tried to dissuade her, but i didn’t then, and still don’t, see the direct results of that such as following the eightfold path.
i am sorry i used that tone with you and even if it were justified, what a bad reflection on me anyway. i had spent some time on bullshido today and i guess i am somewhat sensitized to claims against the development of kung fu and its relationship to Buddhist community/history in China (White Horse Temple, Shaolin temple in Henan etc) The history of the southern Shaolin temple seems cloudy at best.
I apologize as well for not being clearer, please forgive me. I can certainly understand what you’re saying about the Bullshido people. They can at times, take the whole “grrrr, reality! rawr, grrrr…” thing WAY too far. If you look at the MMA thread that recently popped up on this forum, you’ll even see some MMA-types “questioning” whether the Chinese Martial Arts were used for fighting at all.
It is hard to read tone on the internet. Again, I apologize, I didn’t mean to paint you personally as a pop-culture-hipster, but rather to illustrate against Fighting Gorilla’s orginal point. My point is simply that Buddhism at the Shaolin Temple is most likely VERY different from what is taught as “Buddhist elements” at many Kung Fu Schools (more in-depth and requiring MUCH more commitment. I may not agree with Buddhism on some points, but I can do naught but respect it nonetheless.) I don’t doubt that there are some Kung-Fu schools here in the states that teach Buddhism heavily, but those are first and foremost Kung Fu Schools. The Shaolin Temple is a Buddhist Temple first, and a place to learn Kung Fu second. Again, I am sorry for not being clear, and I will work to rectify this in the future.
The whole point of my post was not to undermine Buddhist practice or religion, but that I feel it is not appropriate to use the Martial Arts as a vehicle to spread Christianity, or any other religion. Therefore, while I feel “Christian Karate” is silly, it is no more silly than the guy from Canton Ohio who goes to Kung Fu class, hears sifu talk about the Dao and Dharma and stuff and thinks they’re learning “the true message of Buddha (or Daoism.)” Just so there are no more misunderstandings, this is not directed at you, Banjos_dad.
My intent was not to undermine the impact of eastern thought, culture and religion on Chinese Martial Arts, but to show that the practice of those arts is not necessarily tied to those religions. The study of Yin and Yang, detatchment from self, respect for your teacher and family, the relationship of permanence/impermanence, and Dharma and Karma are all COMPONENTS of Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism. Important components, but components I can still study and glean benefits from without being Buddhist. Similar to how someone could glean the benefits of a Kosher diet without being Jewish, or how one could live by the Golden Rule without being a Christian.
By definition of the word, Buddhism is in fact a religion.
Yes it has philosophy of living tied to it, but so does christianity, judaeism, islam, hinduism, etc etc.
But fundamently, buddhism is a belief system (the 4 noble truths) as well as values and practices as taught by a spiritual leader. (the 8 fold path as taught by shakyamuni).
The philosophy aspect of buddhism is similar to that of christianity or any of the others when it comes to life philosophy. Be good to others, don’t do egrigious things, take care of those who can’t take care of themselves, empathize, be compassionate, don’t hate, etc etc etc.
One can be secular and practice christian life philosophy or any of the others, but this is more often than not, not the case. Nor are people judged as anything but black or white on the question when the extremes of either are asked.
As for gods and creators in Buddhism, there are many examples of lords and kinds and dieties etc etc etc. Just not a monotheistic view and of course allegory, metaphor and figurative archetypes are at play. Even Christianity has it’s angels and demons, saints and great sinners. Names are different, but structurally, one religion is virtually the same as the next in function.
Tee hee hee
IMHO it’s a fait accomplit that one of the most mystical schools of the worlds oldest missionary religion have managed to convince the world that they aren’t even a religion.
And a resident Buddhist (yeah so I’m not a very good Buddhist but still) practicing in China takes the plate.
Buddhism is a religion. It’s a very flexible religion and it is capable of co-existing with other religions… often even in the same brain. This aside it is correct to call Buddhism a religion.
Much of the information I have read on Buddhism in general and Chan in particular
What separates Ch’an / Zen from other branches of buddhism is a few core tennants…
1: The tennant of the unspoken transmission of dharma.
It was said that certain components of the teaching could not be transmitted through words. Shakyamuni Buddha communicated these teachings to certain, more intuitive, students and these teachings eventually passed to Damo who brought them to China. See: The flower story for details on the unspoken transmission of the dharma.
2: The idea of sudden enlightenment.
Although the potential for sudden enlightenment is present in many forms of mahayana buddhism it is particularly strong in ch’an / zen. A person IS capable of a moment of revelation in which they become enlightened, much like Gautama Siddhartha.
3: The idea of hard work.
Whether it’s gong fu, zen gardens or simply a rigorous schedule of meditation ch’an / zen does not believe that all you have to do is recite the name of the correct past-cycle buddha to achieve liberation. Rather you have to work really hard to get there.
Again this can be related to the story of Gautama Siddhartha. He was enlightened in a single night but he spend years before that seeking enlightenment.
concerns various subjects such as Reincarnation
It’s funny how misunderstood the whole reincarnation / rebirth thing is. Will Simon B. McNeil ever be reincarnated as a rabbit or another person or anything of the sort? Heck no! There is no Simon B. McNeil.
See one of the original theological disputes between Buddhism and Hinduism was over reincarnation / rebirth.
Hindus believed that there was a quality within people called Atman… It’s sort of like the soul. Buddhists believed that the distinctions between two “individuals” were illusions and that what existed was not Atman but rather Anatman… literally not-atman. Buddhism does contain the idea of rebirth but I find that the best metaphor to explain it is as follows:
If I light one candle and then I take that candle and I use it to light another when I extinguish the first candle its flame has not died.
Sorry for the allegorical method of dissertation but it’s a difficult concept to approach otherwise.
, Nirvana (as a state of mind of course.)
The state of liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth is part and parcel with enlightenment. But it’s more a state of (no)mind.
gods, goddesses, etc.
Whichever ones were common to the area before Buddhism got there… including the hebrew god. Too bad the romans mucked it all up.
Somehow, I think the Buddhist practitioners in Asia tend to take it much more seriously than the typical “hipster” view on it. “Wow, check me out, I’m meditating. Aren’t I all cool and transcendental? Look, I’m a vegetarian! That makes me really deep. Right? Right???”
Funny thing is that most of the “buddhists” over this way probably wouldn’t say “I’m a vegetarian.” They might or might not eat less meat than most but the vow to eat no meat is one for monks to take, not laity.
I think the hipster comment is due to what is called “faux buddhism” by some.
I don’t know if there is such a thing, just different ways of going about things.
After all, Ch’an came out of what was before, like anything else.
Christmas was created by a group of rich New Yorkers in an effort to change it from a dangerous, drunken pagan celebration into something more respectable. “The Night Before Christmas” was written specifically for this purpose.
Up until about 1850 or so, only Catholic churches has a Christ Mass celebration. Protestants refused to join in until their members started attending the Catholic celebration.
ouch b_d gets rocked… but at least now i can take comfort in a guilt free ham sammich
Hooray for da sammiches! 