whoa, way to go Gene!
yenhoi…‘Mote…’ was an awesome book. Ringworld is good but not the best. Have you read “Legacy of Hearot” ? Niven, Pournelle and Steven Barnes…hella good, maybe one of the best and would make an awesome movie.
WHICH, BTW, IF NONE OF YOU FOOLS HAVE READ ANY STEVEN BARNES YET…I MIGHT JUST GIVE UP TRYING TO PROMOTE HIM
Streetlethal
Gorgon Child
Firedance
Blood Brothers
Dream Park (w/ Larry Niven)
among others…
US Army fencing program? Cool, I didn’t even know they had one that recently. Hey Gene, have you checked out the book “The Secret History of the Sword–Adventures in Ancient Martial Arts” by J. Christoph Amberger? He’s got a couple related chapters—He does a review of General Patton’s 1913 saber system, and he also reprints a WWII manual of what Allied soldiers should do if they encounter sword-wielding Axis officers. I would highly recommend this book for anyone interested in swords----he destroys a lot of myths, makes a lot of controversial points, and covers an incredibly wide time-line of sword history. And, he personally fought sharp Mensur duels in Germany in the late 80’s. One of the points he made that I thought was quite interesting was his belief that the stress and fear of actual combat can negate 50-80% of a martial artists’ training.
Speaking of Epee, I just started taking that a bit more seriously–getting some real lessons instead of just bouting. I’m not sure if it will be my cup of tea. With foil and the right-of-way, I feel like I have time to plan my attacks, but with Epee I just get poked in the godd&mn forearm before I know what’s happened. 
Re: dude?
Originally posted by GeneChing
But this thread is not really about fencing anymore, is it?
Actually, I was planning to steer the discussion through a series of movies that would end with ‘Circle of Steel’, and thus perform the difficult ‘triple-half-gainer-reverse-threadjack’ maneuver.
Id like to know about fencing footwork outside of competitive fencing. Maybe more details about the counter-for-counter drills.
I think ive read everything by Niven. Nothing recently, I havent had time to read that stuff since college started.
yenhoi, Niven’s not my most favorite but I’ve read the first 3 of the ringworld series, ‘mote…’ and a few others.
the ‘fools’ bit wasn’t directed at you personally.
Steven Barnes is just my personal crusade. A very under appreciated author. If you have time to squeeze a book in on break or something, I highly recommend “The Legacy of Hearot”. Quite a read and one of the scariest creatures I’ve ever read.
Ive recently read 3 books from something called “The Song of Fire and Ice.”
Good Stuff.
Ill check it out. It is the holidays afterall!
:eek:
Ky Fi and Gene Ching,
Speaking of Epee, I just started taking that a bit more seriously–getting some real lessons instead of just bouting. I’m not sure if it will be my cup of tea. With foil and the right-of-way, I feel like I have time to plan my attacks, but with Epee I just get poked in the godd&mn forearm before I know what’s happened.
Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there’s not with sabre, since it’s such a free for all. Right of way is the part I’m having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you’re stabbed, you’re stabbed. But I guess that’s less useful a mindset if you’re trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner.
Yenhoi,
Most of the footwork I’ve done so far wouldn’t look all that new to you, I don’t think. (But I daresay there’s a lot I haven’t seen myself.)
Advancing and retreating is done (not surprisingly) as it is in much of JKD. Advancing: Lead foot steps forward, rear foot steps forward. Retreating: Rear foot steps back, lead foot steps back.
There’s no sidestepping that I’ve seen, because you’re staying on a narrow strip.
Then there’s the lunge. You pretty much know what that is, I expect. Sword and arm move first, then long step for the lunge.
The rest (at least at my low level) is a question of combination. Two advances and a lunge. A retreat, advance, lunge. Etc.
Stuart B.
In traditional fencing, would you also learn to circle?
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]In traditional fencing, would you also learn to circle?
[/B]
I’m almost sure of it.
Originally posted by ZIM
I suppose this thread could be taken even further afield
Heh. There’s actually a thread kicking around on one of the forums about this very question. Whether there are styles that teach the two-handed axe. If I come across it again, I’ll know where to point him.
Cheers.
Stuart
Originally posted by apoweyn
[B]Ky Fi and Gene Ching,
Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there’s not with sabre, since it’s such a free for all. Right of way is the part I’m having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you’re stabbed, you’re stabbed. But I guess that’s less useful a mindset if you’re trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner. [/B]
Actually, there is right of way in sabre. But no, there’s no right of way in epee. Right of way was originally developed to simulate real combat; it was meant to discourage going for “double touch”. Without right of way (as in epee) if you see your opponent making an attack on you, you can respond with an attack without worrying about defense as long as you get there first. In a real fight situation, of course, this is suicide; you’d wind up impaling your opponent as he impales you. Right of way was designed to simulate this, and force fencers to defend themselves against ‘lethal’ attacks before attempting a rejoinder.
Epee has no right of way because epee fencing derives from a period when duels were not usually fought to the death, but to first blood. This is also why epee has no target restrictions, whereas foil and sabre restrict themselves to “lethal” areas.
Huh. Okay, now I’m interested in right of way. Before, I was thinking of it solely as a convention for determining who scored first. But as a training exercise, that makes more sense.
Cheers.
Sabre does have right of way. Okay. Now I know.
Nobody in college mentioned right of way to me, so it’s a new idea across the board. Thanks for filling me in.
Stuart B.
Whether there are styles that teach the two-handed axe.
Lum Br Jak system by Paul Bun Yan
More axe teachers, eh? And to think, the guy was stuck with ‘glima’ until now.
apoweyne, Staff-fighting seems fencing-ish. The front hand is a guide. The rear hand pulls the staff through the guide hand redirects the staff tip as one would a pool cue.. pulling and pushing can avoid parries. The side of the staff deflects incomming.
Sidestepping in ~fencing…The point seems who’s best at same line combat. To win at this is distance-deception. Stepping should be short-ish. With elbow at ribsweight on rear leg with a short stance but bent front leg. To appear weighted (deceive that you can’t move back). From here, shift weight forward while keeping same leg bend(for the most part. Or parry keeping your arm short so that your true reach cannot be gagued (excpet guess~)
Advance with front on center; short lunge to head; stepp rear foot off center (three to six inches); when you defend and yield back, not on your rear leg which would turn you;rear from front leg to make it seem as though you have both feet on center. Keep sword hilt on center. Quick pull of sword hand then shift to side ****hest from opponent (three or four inches) while bringing-up rear foot still off center (not passing heel of the front foot). Weight shift forward withOut stepyou are now thrusting off center. Hopefully this helps, and is an advantage you can learn to take.
Making basics edgey makes Masters. If you are studying lunge then play with distance of step, weight when landing, parry when landing/or after hit/or recovering from parried attempt.And elbow extension with each movement, hold the thrust until after the weightshift.
As for parrying, short power. Whacking with little effort to make a way clear to thrust.
Push/pull do this drill to improve I might think.
No_Know, how was the trip down south?
Originally posted by apoweyn
[B]Ky Fi and Gene Ching,
Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there’s not with sabre, since it’s such a free for all. Right of way is the part I’m having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you’re stabbed, you’re stabbed. But I guess that’s less useful a mindset if you’re trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner. [/B]
Yep, FatherDog answered this well. There is ROW in foil and saber, and not in epee. And yes, it’s kind of six of one, half-dozen of the other as far as which is more “realistic”. Epee is realistic in that every touch, anywhere on the body, is acknowledged. Foil and saber could be considered more realistic because they only award strong, forceful attacks to vital areas. (I"m not getting into the “flick” :))And, although sport fencing is based on real combat, and a lot of it could translate to real combat (speed, timing, blade control, conditioning, reflexes, combat mindset, strategy), in the end you’re learning a sport, not a traditional martial art. But I have to say, I’ve played a lot of sports, and I don’t think I’ve ever found anything as satisfying as landing a perfectly timed, on target, fully extended lunge at full speed against an opponent who’s trying as hard as he can to stop you. Well, OK, OK—the kid was 12 years old—but I’m tellin’ you I really kicked a$$, and I’m sure I would have done equally well against a 13 year-old.
I found right of way the hardest thing to get in fencing, as well as resisting the urge to use all 4 limbs in attack