if you just do one or two forms in your life, learning one technique a month just takes five minutes, then you can spar for every class.
i think the people who can’t fight jumped to the forms instead of practicing basics.
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Yeah, that is what I see too.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;814329]Was training with EriK Paulson a few weekends ago. Relevant because as originally a JKD guy, he still has kept aspects of Wing Chun in what he does today (ie “Combat Submission Wrestling”)[/QUOTE]
Interesting, how so?
Some groups don’t compete, some do.
Here’s a Bak Mei school that offers bare knuckle open-floor fighting: www.undergroundkungfu.com
Some don’t because they see the rules interfering with their doctrine. But one of my old coaches, who was a stickler for the original training forced us to compete in every dang combat sport available - regardless if the rules worked against us. We won an awful lot even though most rule sets were completely neutering for the art.
It’s a blance, a little sport fighting is very good for you. Too much takes the ‘self defense skill’ out of it - just watch Jason Chambers get clobbered with a rebar when he pulled guard on a Marine, or stabbed repeatedly by an Israeli as he shot in.
Like Coach Ross said, it’s a balance.
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;814554]Some groups don’t compete, some do.
Here’s a Bak Mei school that offers bare knuckle open-floor fighting: www.undergroundkungfu.com
Some don’t because they see the rules interfering with their doctrine. But one of my old coaches, who was a stickler for the original training forced us to compete in every dang combat sport available - regardless if the rules worked against us. We won an awful lot even though most rule sets were completely neutering for the art.
It’s a blance, a little sport fighting is very good for you. Too much takes the ‘self defense skill’ out of it - just watch Jason Chambers get clobbered with a rebar when he pulled guard on a Marine, or stabbed repeatedly by an Israeli as he shot in.
Like Coach Ross said, it’s a balance.[/QUOTE]
You mean Ka-Bar not rebar.
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;814554]
Some groups don’t compete, some do.
[/QUOTE]
it isn’t even about competition as much as training method. Most of my students don’t compete, but they train like the ones that do!
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;814554]
Here’s a Bak Mei school that offers bare knuckle open-floor fighting:
[/QUOTE]
The only problem I have with stuff like that is “who are they fighting with”? A pseudo challenge “come into my school and fight me” environment is going to turn a lot of people off, and the people it does attract are usually the “clueless”…
I don’t believe in “kid sister testing”, ie “I beat up my kid sister with this, so it must work”
Sport, if that is what you want to call it, creates an openness. Guys get together and train hard without the “you’ve betrayed Shaolin” thing 
[QUOTE=Water Dragon;814219]Afterthe kids class tonight, I was talking with two of the other coaches. One is a blackbelt in Judo, a purple in BJJ, and has recently got interested in MMA. We’re talking real world martial artists, not internet geeks like us. You know, people that come in and train hard, but then go live their life. We start talking about Tai Chi and I show them a little of what I used to do. Then I showed them a little bit of Southern Mantis. The guy asks me straight out, as sincerely as can be, "How come you never see those guys fight. All I could say was, “I don’t know, they just don’t for some reason.”
After about 8 years of first being involved in, then seeing countless threads on this subject, I had no idea what to say.
And yes, I already know this is gonna turn into the infamous monster thread that pops up once a week, I just wanted to share that story. I guess I want to hear how you guys would have answered that question.[/QUOTE]
Not practical for combat. I’ve fought in Judo competitions and toughman contests and as much as I love practicing my Tai Chi. I dont think it ever helped me in either. Now as I creep on 40 years old I’m practicing more TCMA because the injuries of combat are slowing me down.
Coach Ross,
I call that ‘idiot testing’. Don’t think it applies in Zhang’s case. But what’s wrong with the open floor? No one ever b!tched about the Gracies offering one. No one accused them of fighting kid sisters.
I agree on the training method approach - but - focusing exclusively on sport usage produces leaks that can cost your life.
This is not even a debatable point. A clear distinction needs to be drawn between the two. As good as live training is for developing skills, it also creates very bad habits because of the rules and the tendency to ‘work’ the rules for a ‘win.’
Nontheless, without it, players are often unprepared physically and psychologically.
[QUOTE=Egg fu young;814570]Not practical for combat. I’ve fought in Judo competitions and toughman contests and as much as I love practicing my Tai Chi. I dont think it ever helped me in either. Now as I creep on 40 years old I’m practicing more TCMA because the injuries of combat are slowing me down.[/QUOTE]
I get so tired of hearing junk like this and hearing all the crap from the chi hippies who just want to jack off in grassy parks.
People need to throw up a pun, use it to gaurd their center line and drill the form techniques over and over and over again so that the material is understood and can be used. Fan thru the back is an easy one, stand in your bow and arrow stance, pun the attackers in-comming punch then as you take a step forward counter strike him with the edge of your palm so hard he falls down. Blamo, there is tai chi combat technique.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;814562]
The only problem I have with stuff like that is “who are they fighting with”? [/QUOTE]
A few months back I posted videos of him cornering a dude in mma with a pretty good record. Granted the kid’s bjj secured the match for him, but he definitely trains there.
Same video where we were discussing whether or not the padwork had kung fu influence by the way. I maintained that the combos were not typical of the boxing gyms I’ve trained at.
[QUOTE=Mas Judt;814649]
No one ever b!tched about the Gracies offering one. No one accused them of fighting kid sisters.
[/QUOTE]
sure they did! Lots of people, myself included, pointed out that the guys in the much flaunted “Gracie in Action” tapes weren’t much in the way of fighters. Clueless karate guys who had never sparred, the so called “hapkido master” in the foam booties doing point sparring, the kenpo guy who “agreed not to hurt them”, the list goes on!!!
Nah coach, your mixing things up. This is not a ‘gracie challenge’ thing, it is an open floor, just like they used (maybe still) have at Fairtex.
[QUOTE=Water Dragon;814219]Afterthe kids class tonight, I was talking with two of the other coaches. One is a blackbelt in Judo, a purple in BJJ, and has recently got interested in MMA. We’re talking real world martial artists, not internet geeks like us. You know, people that come in and train hard, but then go live their life. We start talking about Tai Chi and I show them a little of what I used to do. Then I showed them a little bit of Southern Mantis. The guy asks me straight out, as sincerely as can be, "How come you never see those guys fight. All I could say was, “I don’t know, they just don’t for some reason.”
After about 8 years of first being involved in, then seeing countless threads on this subject, I had no idea what to say.
And yes, I already know this is gonna turn into the infamous monster thread that pops up once a week, I just wanted to share that story. I guess I want to hear how you guys would have answered that question.[/QUOTE]
I would have told him to look harder for the fights, he can find them.
I would have to say that no one takes the time/years/decades to learn how to actually apply the techniques they have learned.
Most people learn way too much before they have mastered what they already know making the collections of techniques useless not the lack of fighting ability in the CMA themselves.