How is Fukien White Crane Wing Chun different than other Fukien White Crane arts ?
If you mean Yongchun County’s He Quan (Crane Fist) as compared to He Quan (i.e. Ming, Zong, Shi, etc) then it would be simply that Yongchun county’s art tends to hold a larger array of technique whereas the others don’t necessarily. However this not necessarily a good thing as the others have tended to specialise in the jing aspects and key principles. Whereas in the original the abundance of content have not necessarily laid the emphasis in that direction. Time then plays its test and the results become different. Fact is that there are very many core concepts which are common to all. In the end they are all just as great which depends upon the depth of the teaching rather than the art.
From what I have heard from aomeone who is in China now, and training in Wing Chun, he says that they call ALL Wing Chun- Wing Chun Fukien Bak Hok.
It seems that only outside of China are we such experts that we are aware of the difference!
Guangdong Yongchunquan and Fujian Baiheyongchunquan are kept quite distinct. I have been there (Yongchun county in Fujian) and to Foshan in Guangdong. There is no mistaking the nomenclature…It is even referred to separately in all official records.
ShaolinMaster
Are saying Fukien White Crane Wing Chun is not considered the same art as Wing Chun from Kwangtung ? What are some of the names of the forms and techniques in Fukien White Crane Wing Chun ?
Wing Chun/Yongchun white crane is the crane system attributed to Fong Wing Chun. It may or may not be one of the root arts for Wing Chun, but it is very definitely Fujian Bai He, and distinctly different to Wing Chun.
Good to see you around again Shaolin Master (like your new front page), I’ve missed your input. BTW you’re not set up for PMs.
Firehawk,
some sets of Fujian Yong chun county white crane:
San Zhan, Shi San Tai Bao, Chuan Xin Zhong, Mei Nv Shu Zhuang, Da Qian Zi Da etc,…
Ben,
Hi …not a regular but I browse when I find time…I’’ try to set up PM…
Regards
Wu Chan Long
Hi,
Can someone list what all the concepts, theories, and principles are in the Fujian and fukien white crane systems with some explanations and examples of how they work in applications.
Your question requires you to go and study with someone. It would take too long…and I would not be bothered to write hundreds of pages to explain when you should find and ask a/your teacher. In addition any explanation would be limited to a single variation, experience and practice is the only way to understand the below.
<<<“all” the concepts, theories, and principles with explanations and examples of how they work in applications. >>>>
Apologies
Regard
Wu Chan Long
Just a list of them and a couple of words about what they mean would be great!
Regard
Kung fu fighter
Hi Shaolin Master,
Just a list of the Theories, principles and concepts of Fujian and fukein white crane would be great! I not interested in studying the style per se, I just want to compare it’s understanding of them to what we have in wing chun.
Regard
Kung fu fighter
Hi,
Just a list of the Theories, principles and concepts of Fujian and fukein white crane would be great! I not interested in studying the style per se, I just want to compare it’s understanding of them to what we have in wing chun.
Regards
Kung fu fighter
I agree with Shaolin Master, you must study the arts under teacher 's who have the knowledge. In fact even many years of study may not help you understand all the diffrent principles and concepts between Wing Chun and Bahei.
Also when learning any martial art under a teacher you are only getting their point of view regarding these principles. You must travel to Fukein and search for your own research into this facinating subject.
I am from an Okinawan Hakatsuru and karate background, but my study has taken me to Fujien Bahei which I have been studying for a few years now, I am lucky to have a friend who studies regulary in China. But I intend to visit and study, soon.
The interesting thing here is seeing the obvious similarities, and understanding that the principles are actually the same but described in diffrent ways.
I was under the impression that Wing Chun was very close to Bahei ?
Is this true ?
I was under the impression that Wing Chun was very close to Bahei ?
Is this true?
Hey there mufty,
You know? I have been hearing of the possible connection of Wing Chun to Fukien Bak Hok Kune (Baihei) for a couple of years now. As far as concrete evidence is concerned…I don’t know if anything new or noteworthy has been found. One thing is for sure, there are allusions everywhere to the Crane in Wing Chun, from the legends of Ms. Yim Wing Chun or Nun Ng Mui watching the snake vs the crane to the hands and principles behind the art. So if you look at it in that view then, hey, there might be more than meets the eye!
Just some humble thoughts. 
(If would definitely be nice if a multi system reseach could be undertaken to verify certain connections. Hmmm…has a cross-lineage research ever been done on this subject?)
Thanx for that DRleungjan.
It would be very nice to have a research group that could be un-political, and objective, so we could get our teeth into the facinating subject.
When my m8 went to China many moons ago he actually went to train in Wing Chun, and when he asked around for a Quan, he found himself in the Fujiban Baihe Quan. While there he lernt to speak the lingo, and was told by the Teacher that Wing Chun was an historical branch, from Baihe. He has been travelling to China every couple of years ever since.
I feel that maybe ‘White Crane’ is proberly the connective tissue so to speak because of the fact that the Shaolin taught White Crane during the period in China when the Chinese were trying to kick the Manchurians out. Due to the fact that the White Crane techniques were the quick and easy essence of a civil defence system.
Whats you view?
I feel that maybe ‘White Crane’ is proberly the connective tissue so to speak because of the fact that the Shaolin taught White Crane during the period in China when the Chinese were trying to kick the Manchurians out. Due to the fact that the White Crane techniques were the quick and easy essence of a civil defence system.
What’s your view?
Hmmm…let me see if I can spew some stuff of my head here…since I’m at work and am pressed for time…
Yes mufty I agree, according to what I have read and a little conjecture on my part, White Crane IS the connective tissue between either Honam Siu Lam/Fukien Siu Lam and Wing Chun. The Qing Period in Chinese history was a very tumultuous time. There was not too much time to produce fighters in 10 to 20 years as would have been the norm. Even when one looks at Wing Chun’s principles one sees the ‘get to the point and stop beating around the bush’ nature of Wing Chun. According to lore it is even stated that Ng Mui might have been a 5th generation practioner of White Crane…at least I read some where that the White Crane lineage charts state so…but don’t quote me on that one. Lei Man Mou a leader in the Taiping rebellion and member of the Red Junk Opera Troupe was also said to have been a White Crane practitioner. Wing Chun is heavily connected with the Red Junks. So you see the connection IS there at least in theory.
A good site to visit is Rene Ritchie’s site at www.wingchunkuen.com. It is loaded with information.
To borrow from Jim (I hope he don’t mind) ‘Gotta run!’
Cool thanks for that DRleungjan. If my memory serves me right is not the name Wing Chun named after the training hall that Lei Man Mou practised at the Northern Shaolin Temple befor it was destroyed ? or have I lost the plot ? and getting a bit mixd up.
I will visit the site cheers.
When you get time I would be very interested in more of your views and info cheers m8
If my memory serves me right is not the name Wing Chun named after the training hall that Lei Man Mou practised at the Northern Shaolin Temple befor it was destroyed ? or have I lost the plot ? and getting a bit mixd up.
Yes mufty, memory is a tricky little devil isn’t it? Well, let’s see. The famous Wing Chun Din was more probably at the southern temple. [More probable would be that this famous hall might have been located at the Honam Temple and it’s ideas spread southward to the southern 5 Elders, but that’s just speculation on my part. Although I’d prefer to hear what an expert would say on the subject. Actually there was a very well written article by Sal Canzioneri based on the subject at hand.]
It is were, according to a version of Wing Chun lore, the Wing Chun system was originally devised by the Southern Siu Lam elders. Elders such as Jee Sheem, Miu Hin, and Ng Mui might have developed and perfected the different animal techniques and deviced, what I would like to term as, a proto synthesis of what was later to become Wing Chun Kuen. After the burning of the southern temple the system was propagated along the (in)famous Hung Suen or Red Boats. Lei Man Mou was a member of such a troupe. When the rebellion that he pertained to failed and the opera disbanded, the system was spread thoroughout the different regions of southern China. One of it’s most famous recipients being the city of Guang Jau or more commonly known as Canton.
I hope I have cleared the waters up a bit.
Thanks for that ‘DRleungjan’
I found some old research that ties in with what your saying.
'It is belived that Abbot Gi Chin taught a fluid agile short ranged style called Waquan (Flower Fist) at the ‘Forever Spring hall’ in the Fujian Shaloin temple.
Hence the name Wing Chung (Forever Spring).
have you herd this ??
regards Mufty
'It is belived that Abbot Gi Chin taught a fluid agile short ranged style called Waquan (Flower Fist) at the ‘Forever Spring hall’ in the Fujian Shaloin temple.
Have you heard this??
Hmmm…yes, as a matter of fact if, I am not mistaken, Wong Kiew Kit has stated something to the effect that Fa Kuen (Waquan) was practiced in the Wing Chun Din. He also has stated that there were two main halls in Siu Lam. One was the Hall of Lou Han in which Lou Han Kuen was taught. Lou Han Kuen was considered to be a ‘hard’ or external art. The other was the ‘Wing Chun Din’ where Fa Kuen was taught. And like you said Fa Kuen was said to be a ‘soft’ or internal arts.
But go figure mufty, Ji Sim Sin Si was also credited with being a Siu Lam Tiger style practitioner and to have been especially proficient with staff techniques. Btw, the staff techniques which became the Luk Dim Bun Gwun or 6.5 Point Pole techniques are said to have been derived from Ji Sim through Wong Wa Bou while Ji Sim went into hiding on the Red Boats and taught it’s opera troupe members.