>Why not just teach those less experienced lifters correct form on a free weight? I see people using bad form on both free weights and machines anyway.
Just like martial arts there are teachers who would teach incorrectly. The world would be a much better place if everyone were taught correctly. I still see people performing exercises that are trainers that do things wrong.
Not to say that there is only ONE way to perform an exercise. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
A good trainer (like a good sifu, sensei, guro, etc.) goes a long way. Even pro boxers have trainers for fights.
>you contradict yourself and say pre-exhaust your triceps which is saying that you should do isolation before compound.
I did not contradict myself. I simply was saying that pre-exhaustion is a valid body building technique. Not to be used as the core paradigm itself, rather it does have a purpose at a particular stage of training.
When I say pre-exhaust the triceps let me clarify…
Bench press utilizes the triceps and pectorals (among other stabilizers). If you work your triceps prior to performing a bench press, the triceps have less to do with the actual lift and therefore you will not have to lift as much weight to directly effect the pectoral muscle as the triceps will not be able to recruit much strength for the lift.
Do I think it has any place in training a fighter? No. However, this is still a valid body-building technique and if used correctly can be great for training for a show.
>Other than the order of exhaustion [the order of exercises] has nothing to do with anything.
How about recruitment for lifts? If you are going to do heavy power cleans and you do squats prior to that. I would say the order has a tremendous impact on how you lift. Your point is not well made being that the order of exhaustion is precisely why the order of exercises is important in designing a program. Not to mention compound and simple motions, larger and smaller muscle groups, etc.
When you see long endurance training routines (i.e., tri-athletes) you see how important the order of exercises are.
If anything, my posts can be read as VERY general. I do not prescribe absolutes.
>There are so many methods to train and different people will have slightly different results.
Yes, however when you are talking about training a fighter it is something that has been done for centuries. Russians were the first ones to codify it, yet it has been utilized by many cultures in Southasia and Southeast Asia for hundreds of years. They applied it to training with the seasons and thereby being in harmony with nature.
>competition bodybuilders are the WORST people to model your workout on.
I whole heartedly agree with this. Unless of course you want to be a body builder. And then don’t think you can compete without steroids and other very damaging substances.
If I understand correctly, we are martial artists here. We should train like fighters, not people that want to be in a magazine ad.
>I still say that fatiguing the triceps in a manner you described won’t work.
Won’t work for what? If it is isolation you are speaking of, you are wrong.
>you won’t be able to use heavy enough weight to adequately stimulate the chest
What is adequate? Just because you can’t bench as much as you can when you are fresh? This just means that when you are fresh you are relying more on your triceps and deltoids to assist in the lift and not focusing on your pectorals.
>Your back does not assit a situp at all.
You mean to tell me you have never seen someone buck themselves on the ground and use the ricochet to assist them getting up? This is commonly called ‘the kip’ and was used in many military and police physical fitness exams until the last 5 years when they monitored “cheating” the sit-up. And a good thing too. This can cause a lot of lower lumbar injuries.
>That’s like saying your triceps help you do bicep curls.
No, however I am sure you have seen people buck their hips while performing bicep curls in an attempt to get the weight up because they were lifting weight too heavy for them. Bad form.
>Sorry, but I don’t like your “I’m certified so I know it all” attitude.
First off, I never said that I know it all only that I was certified. Perhaps listing qualifications is looked down upon here. I apologize if my remarks were out of line.
>At least I don’t think back muscles perform crunches.
I never stated anything about your age or your experience. Only the content and the context of what you wrote.
But I can see that there are many people here like IronFist that is not interested in actual discourse and understanding of how auxiliary training aids in the martial arts.
Name calling and immature comments are not something I need in my life.
So I will do you all a favor and retire to another forum. ElPietro you have my full endorsement and you have the floor for the remainder of the year.
Cheers and goodluck.
