in modern times women can train martial arts alongside men. in modern times you can also fuk another man up the ass , legally commit adultery, and abort fetuses, so what.
You mad bro?
[QUOTE=Jian;1105063]thanks for posting, david, i appreciate your honest opinion.
this is not a competition for who is stronger male or female. i don’t think what makes a martial artist great or ability to give honor to our ancestors by carrying on the lineage is all about who would win in an all out brawl based on who has more testosterone, power and aggression. if that were the case then, at least on just sparring (only one aspect of martial arts), you might as well eliminate all the weight classes and let the heavyweights rule. i give more credence to technique.
my main point in the beginning is learn how folks on the forum view females’ role in traditional chinese martial arts
i agree it boils down to individual characteristics. i know a rail thin guy in my martial arts class who would not last in the ring… does this mean he’s no good? perhaps he can make the most of his physical body.[/QUOTE]
It’s not that I won’t teach women and I think women can hold martial roles and be quite effective at doling out violence.
Just not pugilistically for the most part.
With women, treachery works a lot better in the areas of self defense and self preservation.
small weapons and soft targets are the effective teachings to give women and children. perhaps escape is big on the curriculum too.
Athletic women who can fight are extremely rare. Atletic women who can fight an athletic man…I don’t know if such creatures actually exist with any ubiquity in our society. I have not observed that.
I also think TV contributes to a lot of delusion and when that delusion is shattered by a bip bop bink on the face…it all comes tumbling down for the woman.
I have observed this TOO many times to count in my 30+ years of hanging in Kwoons, dojos, fight clubs, etc. I have to accept it as a simple truth.
Don’t hit girls. < why does this phrase even exist if we were remotely similar in physical capabilities on teh median.
The woman that wants to and actually can go h2h with a dude her size and skill? Ok? Let me know when you see her!
raz, nah, keep it going.. i knew what i was getting into when i entered the forum.
bawang, you’re hilarious. i still disagree with your “analysis” on “tradition”.. look over a span of thousands of years of history and then go into the future. very black and white thinking. but anyway, i won’t get caught up on semantics.. more importantly just gathering opinions, which i have still found in general supportive.
china did have female generals. one of them was personally met by the emperor.
the difference is those women were huge and strong, had a small mustache, personally killed hundreds of men and commanded armies that killed thousands
Yes, Bulldyke lesbians are often good fighters.
There was a video with lucy liu with a transgenered girl/guy who can box very well. This is a different case. That was Mulan.
china did have female generals. one of them was personally met by the emperor.
the difference is those women were huge and strong, had a small mustache, personally killed hundreds of men and commanded armies that killed thousands
WoW, sounds like people of questionable character.
So, I’m learning through this forum that I don’t think I know or understand this “TCMA” community that we keep talking about. With respect to our club and the clubs we’re related to in other cities that I’ve visited, we have a tradition of strong women. We put them through the same thing as we do men. It’s hard, some of them break, some of the men break. Some of the women who do not, can and will hurt you and it makes me proud.
I completely disagree with segregating men and women in training. As for culture, I grew up a chivalrous southerner, but I smack the women in our club around every week and they smack me. I think from a self defense standpoint, women are much more likely to need to defend themselves against men than another women, so, they need to train that way. I can’t speak for all styles, but if it really just comes down to who is bigger and stronger, why are we doing this? Your fate is written, no need to train.
As for cheating, yeah, absolutely, always cheat in a fight, man or woman. It’s a fight, you’re trying to win and not get hurt. We are expert cheaters.
Gays? Sadly I think rather than a question for the TCMA Community, it’s a question of time and geography. I live on the west coast of the US in the year 2011 and almost no one has a hangup about ****sexuality here. I know it’s not that way everywhere. I think some day it might be, but it’s going to take a long time in some places. Again, women need to be able to defend themselves, sadly so do gays, especially gay men, who still are subject of bashing sometimes, even on the west coast. Why wouldn’t you want to train them if they and you thought it might help? I realize we could argue about that, but those are my views and it’s not worth trying to convince me otherwise.
[QUOTE=Jian;1104740]
- women are welcome but really it’s the men that authentically carry on the lineage of our ancestors
[/QUOTE]
I don’t see that glass ceiling in my circles.
[QUOTE=Jian;1104740]
- female martial artists are appreciated because they are feminine and sexy
[/QUOTE]
Well…yeah. Was that in question?
[QUOTE=Jian;1104740]
gay is fine as long as they stay away from me.
[/QUOTE]
You know, I don’t know if this is a martial arts question or not. I’m a married, straight male and before I knew gay men and women personally, I had some fears associated with them. Now that I do, I understand how unfounded they are. Gay men like gay men, they don’t feel attraction to women or straight men. Same with gay women, it’s got nothing to do with me. I have plenty of friends/coworkers etc in each camp and my relationship with them is exactly the same as it is with straight men and women. Certainly reason not to train with someone on this point. My personal views, probably not that uncommon on the west coast, I realize it’s not that way everywhere.
There is no telling how many closeted football/baseball/basketball players, actors, politicians, pop stars etc there are or for that matter friends and family members we each have. Someday they won’t be and we’ll have to deal with the fact that people we like, were comfortable with yesterday, who are good at their jobs and maybe even great UFC fighters have a fondness for members of their own gender.
So, i was just lamenting that I get attacked on this forum for posting things about kung fu training that I don’t think should be controversial and here I am posting something that I know some people will take strong exception to. Flame on if you must.
I’m sorry about your friend’s negative experience.
[QUOTE=Razaunida;1105074]No, they can and should train in martial arts, but should train with other women. Men who train with women turn into women. Women who train with men stay women.
Because men are nice to women.
Want this to stop?[/QUOTE]
we’re not talking about training in all women or all male schools :). when i was an upper level training with a beginner i’d work on different techniques than when i was paired up with an advanced martial artist. for example, if i was much stronger i’d experiment more and try my weaker side. also, when sparring against people of different sizes i found it helpful to work on different stuff. then i’d get paired up with someone of my weight class and same level and could go all out… i did enjoy the synchronicity of that pairing.
so i think it is possible for a male to train with a female (and benefit) even if he’s much physically stronger and could outpower her… but if it’s a matter of personal preference, sure, you don’t have to work with women if you don’t find it helpful.
One time I did a full contact rape prevention class.
I invited some ex cons to teach how they would rape so that the women would know how real rapists go about it.
Then came the partner work.
One guy did get hurt and the woman got away. The rest didn’t. Needless to say that things really didn’t go as planned.
I had to change my name and move.
when i spar with womans it give me boner
[QUOTE=Jian;1105113]we’re not talking about training in all women or all male schools :). when i was an upper level training with a beginner i’d work on different techniques than when i was paired up with an advanced martial artist. for example, if i was much stronger i’d experiment more and try my weaker side. also, when sparring against people of different sizes i found it helpful to work on different stuff. then i’d get paired up with someone of my weight class and same level and could go all out… i did enjoy the synchronicity of that pairing.
so i think it is possible for a male to train with a female (and benefit) even if he’s much physically stronger and could outpower her… but if it’s a matter of personal preference, sure, you don’t have to work with women if you don’t find it helpful.[/QUOTE]
I agree, particularly with sensitivity training, but there is a degree where you need to kick things up a notch and women usually opt to watch at that point.
[QUOTE=Jian;1105113]
so i think it is possible for a male to train with a female (and benefit) even if he’s much physically stronger and could outpower her… but if it’s a matter of personal preference, sure, you don’t have to work with women if you don’t find it helpful.[/QUOTE]
yep, I agree. Men and Women can share some aspects of training together.
sometime the learning environment we create for ourselves as martial artists is contradictory to what an environment of learning should be for a martial artist.
ergo, no women sparring men and vice versa and no kids with adults.
It takes too long for anyone to get halfway proficient when they are not working wit the best possible materials.
Some say “poor is the carpenter who blames his tools”
But I say : “poor is the carpenter who’s only tool is a hammer and who can only see every project as nails to be banged in”.
Not all aspects of martial arts can be serviceable in a cross gender way.
thanks! i appreciate your sentiments (below)… i also train in the west coast and have found folks here very open-minded. i personally prefer training at schools with mixed genders too. i’ve read some comments in other threads and actually expected folks to be more conservative, and have been surprised to find support for both women and gay folks.
[QUOTE=Jon_Ray_Brooks;1105112]So, I’m learning through this forum that I don’t think I know or understand this “TCMA” community that we keep talking about. With respect to our club and the clubs we’re related to in other cities that I’ve visited, we have a tradition of strong women. We put them through the same thing as we do men. It’s hard, some of them break, some of the men break. Some of the women who do not, can and will hurt you and it makes me proud.
I completely disagree with segregating men and women in training. As for culture, I grew up a chivalrous southerner, but I smack the women in our club around every week and they smack me. I think from a self defense standpoint, women are much more likely to need to defend themselves against men than another women, so, they need to train that way. I can’t speak for all styles, but if it really just comes down to who is bigger and stronger, why are we doing this? Your fate is written, no need to train.
As for cheating, yeah, absolutely, always cheat in a fight, man or woman. It’s a fight, you’re trying to win and not get hurt. We are expert cheaters.
Gays? Sadly I think rather than a question for the TCMA Community, it’s a question of time and geography. I live on the west coast of the US in the year 2011 and almost no one has a hangup about ****sexuality here. I know it’s not that way everywhere. I think some day it might be, but it’s going to take a long time in some places. Again, women need to be able to defend themselves, sadly so do gays, especially gay men, who still are subject of bashing sometimes, even on the west coast. Why wouldn’t you want to train them if they and you thought it might help? I realize we could argue about that, but those are my views and it’s not worth trying to convince me otherwise.
I don’t see that glass ceiling in my circles.
Well…yeah. Was that in question?
You know, I don’t know if this is a martial arts question or not. I’m a married, straight male and before I knew gay men and women personally, I had some fears associated with them. Now that I do, I understand how unfounded they are. Gay men like gay men, they don’t feel attraction to women or straight men. Same with gay women, it’s got nothing to do with me. I have plenty of friends/coworkers etc in each camp and my relationship with them is exactly the same as it is with straight men and women. Certainly reason not to train with someone on this point. My personal views, probably not that uncommon on the west coast, I realize it’s not that way everywhere.
There is no telling how many closeted football/baseball/basketball players, actors, politicians, pop stars etc there are or for that matter friends and family members we each have. Someday they won’t be and we’ll have to deal with the fact that people we like, were comfortable with yesterday, who are good at their jobs and maybe even great UFC fighters have a fondness for members of their own gender.
So, i was just lamenting that I get attacked on this forum for posting things about kung fu training that I don’t think should be controversial and here I am posting something that I know some people will take strong exception to. Flame on if you must.
I’m sorry about your friend’s negative experience.[/QUOTE]
Here is Sifu Gus’s female student sparring a man in Wong Peoples tournament.
[QUOTE=Razaunida;1105120]I agree, particularly with sensitivity training, but there is a degree where you need to kick things up a notch and women usually opt to watch at that point.[/QUOTE]
fine, fine, i think you’ve made your point :). i still think that among all women and men there’s a great diversity that is not being acknowledged. there is always the barbie doll woman and rail thin guy as well females such as the Cyborg and Lana Stefanac. my guess is you’d rather spar with lana stefanac.
[QUOTE=V.O.R.;1105126]Here is Sifu Gus’s female student sparring a man in Wong Peoples tournament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JwYlluTOEI[/QUOTE]
Nice! How many like her in Gus’ school?
cool, thanks for sharing
[QUOTE=V.O.R.;1105126]Here is Sifu Gus’s female student sparring a man in Wong Peoples tournament.
[QUOTE=Jian;1105132]fine, fine, i think you’ve made your point :). i still think that among all women and men there’s a great diversity that is not being acknowledged. there is always the barbie doll woman and rail thin guy as well females such as the Cyborg and Lana Stefanac. my guess is you’d rather spar with lana stefanac.[/QUOTE]
Jian - Be careful.
Cyborg and other woman fighters are outliers. There are so few of them, that is the only category they fit into.
