[QUOTE=rett;1251165]This kind of stuff is really helpful, thanks. Can you elaborate (if it’s possible in this word-based format) on how this rotation changes your structure and helps parry a thrust to the heart? I do understand if you want to mainly keep to discussing the manual.[/QUOTE]
I’ll try…
The weapon is long. A small movement of the hands (positioned at the base and midway) will create a large movement of the tip. When you flick the wrist between the yin and yang position the end of the staff does not simply rotate but instead draws an arc. The size of the arc depends on the movement of the rear hand. If you do not turn over the wrists the staff will not draw a powerful arc it will simply move weakly.
When thrusted a spear is long and has no lateral strength or structure. So it becomes weightless and even a small push can send it flying away. The arc can deflect the spear in this way. In the classic technique LanNaQiang, you can press his spear down from above, but to do this your palm must be facing down. If your palm is facing up you would have to ‘pull’ down to knock his spear down, this is not so controlled or powerful.
When you make contact with the opponents spear sometimes they will stick together and there will be pressure between them, small rotations of the wrist here make a huge difference to how much pressure you can apply as the spear will circle and the direction of force will change. If the opponent feels the structure is weak he can thrust straight in even the though the spears are in contact. You will feel this easily if you cross sticks with someone.
The weapon is long. A small movement of the hands (positioned at the base and midway) will create a large movement of the tip. When you flick the wrist between the yin and yang position the end of the staff does not simply rotate but instead draws an arc .[/QUOTE]
The weapon is long. A small movement of the hands (positioned at the base and midway) will create a large movement of the tip. When you flick the wrist between the yin and yang position the end of the staff does not simply rotate but instead draws an arc. The size of the arc depends on the movement of the rear hand. If you do not turn over the wrists the staff will not draw a powerful arc it will simply move weakly.
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nobody flicks their wrist except wushu rubber bendy spears. the longer the spear, the greater the strength you must use.
yang family spear is a very rough and coarse spear style, there are no fine movements. it uses large brute force movements, it was designed for simple men. the spear shaft is very thick and unbendable. yang family spear is strong enough to attach a bamboo firearm. the average yang family spear is 14 feet long.
[QUOTE=bawang;1251217]the average yang family spear is 14 feet long.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, but we are interested in the use of the Shaolin Staff which is no more than 8 feet.
I am assuming for most of the techniques we will be discussing that we are using a staff fighting against a short spear in a small group or one to one. One on one I am sure the short light spear is a better weapon.
One last question on this if I may. Would you agree that in executing the arc-shaped parry as described you not only rotate the wrist of the forward hand, but also typically extend the arm a bit (from having a somewhat bent elbow to a straighter elbow)? And that a good part of the strength of the resulting structure is related to the new elbow angle?
That’s how I’m working with it now, and it feels right. But it’s happened many times before that something felt right but turned out to be anything but.
A lot of this is in the parts of the qimeigun I’ve learned, but I hadn’t been given these explanations. Great thread idea.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1251221]Indeed, but we are interested in the use of the Shaolin Staff which is no more than 8 feet.
I am assuming for most of the techniques we will be discussing that we are using a staff fighting against a short spear in a small group or one to one. One on one I am sure the short light spear is a better weapon.[/QUOTE]
the shortest spear is 9 feet. below 9 feet its called a staff.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1251221]
I am assuming for most of the techniques we will be discussing that we are using a staff fighting against a short spear in a small group or one to one. One on one I am sure the short light spear is a better weapon.[/QUOTE]
I think ur confused. shaolin staff is a short spear.
<9 feet= staff
>9 feet= spear
Bawang is right about the spear lengths. and that its not really a flick of the wrist, as much as a rotation of the tendon/ligaments which reguires strength, both external and internal. The Yang spear was total battlefield movements where there is no time to waste, so its concepts were simple and its movements were brutal. The Yang family women were known to perfect it too.
Later the 6 Harmony spear masters started to explore applying internal ideas from qigong/neigong to spear play. But either way they had to really understand and have the physical ability to rotate the spear while someone is trying to kill you.
Saying a “flick” implies something different than a parry does.
[QUOTE=bawang;1251245]I think ur confused. shaolin staff is a short spear.
<9 feet= staff
>9 feet= spear[/QUOTE]
Well, this is a reasonable observation though at least nowadays the standard staff method is not the same as the short spear, the ‘Shaolin’ staff referred to in the text is. For one it has a small blade in the tip and a pommel on the base, but reading into the technique some of it is closer to modern Shaolins short spear forms than it is to staff forms. These days having gone through the old spear sets there is actually a lot of similarity to some of the forms presented in the book.
Reading the text itself Cheng says that Shaolins staff is 7/10th’s spear methods and 3/10th’s Staff methods because a thrust is much more powerful than a strike. Though this implies a clear division between what is staff method (striking) and what is spear method (thrusting).
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1251291]Well, this is a reasonable observation though at least nowadays the standard staff method is not the same as the short spear, the ‘Shaolin’ staff referred to in the text is. For one it has a small blade in the tip and a pommel on the base, but reading into the technique some of it is closer to modern Shaolins short spear forms than it is to staff forms. These days having gone through the old spear sets there is actually a lot of similarity to some of the forms presented in the book.
[/QUOTE]
because shaolin staff is so long its unwieldy for sword techniques. sword techniques were used for a powerful first strike, such as mountain crush egg, then switch to spear technique for prolonged fighting.
at 8 feet long the staff has leverage to penetrate armor and crush through blocks. because the momentum brings the staff to the ground, the fastest way to recover is to switch to spear stance.
I only know a little, but heres my 5 cents.
That lan na qiang technique seems like it would very effective in formation against spears, whether it is spear vs spear or staff vs spear. Very tight. many of the staff techniques in the yinshougun i have learned, especially towards the end of the form, can be trained in a straight line, even close to a wall for practice.
