Fish bowl head, bean curd body, iron bridges
sounds good to me.
I used to think that forearm conditioning was not important untill I thouched hands with my senior whose bridges where like hard wood.I think some condition is important not just the bridges but the whole arm.
I really dont understand this.
Am I alone in thinking that in Wing Chun you dont BLOCK incoming strikes, but divert them?
What sort of techniques and concepts are people using which require their arms to be conditioned? 
I think you might be onto something there, FrankE
FrankE - I think it is more about preperation then anything else. In fighting nothiung is for certain and if you take a shot to the arm that is more direct then you planned, the pain could cause you to pause. A little conditioning never hurt anyone.
Frank,
What do you “divert” (as you say) the incoming strikes with?
Your bridge!
Just because we condition it doesnt mean we violate law. Its part of WC’s training, and it is also built into your forms, but you may not have been had it explained to you yet.
Regards,
red5angel
OK, I see what you mean. I guess it depends on the way you train.
Personally I would rather spend time in chisao and sparring, where such painful strikes to the arms do occur occaisonally, and get used to them that way. Like last night 
Jim
>>Its part of WC’s training, and it is also built into your forms, but you may not have been had it explained to you yet. <<
That is possible. Or it could that my particular lineage has a different emphasis on such things, and will never explain it to me, because we simply don’t do things that way.
I’m afraid I still think that if someone was hitting my arms with so much force that they need to be conditioned, then IMO my arms shouldn’t have been resisting the force in the first place. Your mileage may vary.
Do you guys who do the conditioning worry about future health problems, e.g. arthritis, or is that unrelated?
I think that forearm conditioning can lead some people to think that blocking force with force is part of wing chun - and to that extent I’d be against it. However I always understood wing chun to be about whatever works - and sometimes force against force may work - isn’t the end of biu jee a bit of throwing your arms in the way of whatever might be coming in to protect the head?
I guess what I am saying is that whilst it is not ideal - there may be times when it works - maybe its the fastest thing to do - or maybe we just get things wrong and end up blocking with force rather than diverting (or whatever). To that extent conditioning the forearm can only be a strength. In a fight having hard arms or arms impervious to pain (there may be a difference) might help.
As far as future health problems go I think that is a valid question but not one I know the answer to. I can say that I have done hand and arm conditioning in the past but would not do so again - or not in the same way (a way which left my hands and arms swollen and bruised) - I mean I even broke a bone in my partners arm or wrist once doing a conditioning exercise - he was new and thought that the harder he banged it the better - and yes this was wing chun - madness!
Hello Frank!
I think you have a different idea as to how much force is used when conditioning sets are performed. It is very light and it still maintains a touch and go flavor. No “Banging” thats for sure. If you bang you may have to worry about health problems but if you stick with the light flavor you will have nothing to worry about.
I have watched WSL do different drills from your system like Lop Sao and hit the Jong etc.. The ammount of impact on the bridge seems to be greater than what we use in our conditioning methods so I think it is just not seeing how its done and having a different picture in your head as to what is needed to help develop your Tit Kiu.
I do understand your point about getting the development thru sparring but when it comes to not having bridge development in your art I would have to disagree as many of the skills in your system (as Rene mentioned in his post) develop your bridge even without the external conditioning sets that may be in other arts. All WC has it IMO.
Regards,
FrankE - I think you are on the right track. Generally the amount of conditioning you ge through your normal practice is enogh for your average practitioner. I do a little more because I intend to fight in the ring and so may come across harder strikes, etc… but I still dont pay it a whole lot of attention.
True, we do not use force against force in Wing Chun, but can we also agree that “diverting” is only one way of dealing with a strike? IMO - depends on the results you are seeking.
I remember getting bruised alot in the past. But with the help of good jow and relentless conditioning and forearm exercises my forearms rarely bruise anymore. The pole helped also. Just my personal experience.
Could it be that you don’t use force against force so much anymore, having learned a bit of WC, Seeker of Truth, and hence aren’t bruising as much? Maybe? Nah, probably the Jow, great stuff it is.
No form of Kung fu has you stop force with force yet most condition the bridge.
Well…
I came from a school that considered sensitivity important and at first I thoght the conditioning thing was against W.C principles as well. But when these guys threw puches at me, I found I couldn’t defend myself with my old w.c. They would cut striaght through my structure and it HURT! almost as much as jumping on a bicycle without a seat on it. When this happens and your arms try to get out of the situation your structure ends up in places where it shouln’t be, in awkward positions and you are forced to retreat backwards or go to the side in which case they follow you.
For the punching drill we condition a specific area, the blade of the forearm(the side with the little finger). We don’t condtion the inside of the forearm i.e. the soft tissue.
And we condtion these in two ways: 1 through punching each others opposite arms, 2 dan chi sao.
In dan chi sao the punching arm and the bong grind against each other. The blades of both forearms dig in. At first it is really uncomfortable, but it becomes nothing in a very short time.
I read an article in kung fu magazine about Augustine Fong style doing this in a similar way. But I think the article said they have a soft chi sao and a more pressurized chi sao and that the latter develops the internal aspects, while the soft develops sesitivity.
Anyway when we do this conditioning believe it or not we are relaxed, our muscles are not tense. At first they may tense up because of pain but you are supposed to stop when this happens.
About it being against the priciples of W.C…I don’t think so. The fastest route to your target is straight. That means through someones arms if neccessary, not around their arms just because they are in the way that would be similar to chasing hands. Also we are COMPLETELY relaxed.
Read what happened when Straight Blast through a hook at his teacher.
At the end of the day we don’t spend much time on it.
90% of the class is still chi sao and dan chi sao. Sometimes we don’t even do it.
Fong’s people dont “grind” their arms. Conditioning
bridges is just a side product of training.
A-Dog - wrong. I don’t get hurt as often because my forearms are stronger, and harder than when I started. It is not due to my skill level. In fact, I honestly can’t recall getting bruised while bridging a strike. It was always the attacker getting hurt. No force against force here.
yuanfen - I just watched an Augustine Fong tape last week that showed him conditioning his forearms on rollers.
This did’nt seem like a side product of training.
mun hung:big difference in learning from a person and making inferences from tapes. Rolling can give some confidence to fragile instructorless or partnerless beginners. But-
Wing chun skill development is better for protection than direct hardening. Enough good chi sao, mok jong work and two person work takes care of things much better.
Let’s see if I got this straight
So the bruises you thought were on your arms were actually on the opponents’ arms.
JOW – for external use only