[QUOTE=DeHui702;911721]Ok, so there’s a random VCD that explains thinking about a form before doing it. Obviously 1000 times isn’t literal, just a seed to say think about the form a lot. Doesn’t really seem to have anything to do with practicing a military form as though it were Taiji. I honestly thought you were going to discuss more about what your Shifu Dejian taught you.[/QUOTE]
it was posted as something to considered. another take on forms practice. but he was indeed suggesting that “flowing” the form (not just thinking about it) more often is the key to performing it well, rather than only practicing it full, as that would only exhaust you before long. in my experience, flowing the form is very important in being able to perform it well, by paying attention to detail. so i agree with him
as for master dejian, he is not my shifu and hasnt taught me anything personally. what i said about him was again to present another take on forms practice. in fact, its not really another take, its a whole different lineage that has been very well protected from dilution. the whole curriculum taught by him is very “internal”. its never practiced fast. the movements are in coordination with the breath, and he says yelling during the form causes one to waste qi.
Doing a form slow is for the body mechanics training. In shaolin they go fast and hard at the beginning to build the body. Then as one advnaces the forms are slowed down and you really work every nuance of the body mechanics. It becomes very internal at that point.
In Taiji they go fast and hard later, preferring to get every nuance of the mechanics mastered first. It’s probably the older way to do this stuff.
When you realize that the forms were taught last, and all the hard core conditioning was originally done through the drills and equipment training (IE Stone locks, bags, water buckets etc…) it make sense that going slow was the original way to do them. They were tools for the advanced students to master the refined details, not train them up from the beginning. Actually, if you go even further back, you find that they were taught only to the new masters as a Diploma of sorts and not used in training at all.
Today forms are often used as beginners training, so they are externalified for that purpose. That is why you see so much of the “Fast and Hard” ways of doing the forms, and so little of the more advanced Taiji like ways.
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;911908]Doing a form slow is for the body mechanics training. In shaolin they go fast and hard at the beginning to build the body. Then as one advnaces the forms are slowed down and you really work every nuance of the body mechanics. It becomes very internal at that point.
In Taiji they go fast and hard later, preferring to get every nuance of the mechanics mastered first. It’s probably the older way to do this stuff.
When you realize that the forms were taught last, and all the hard core conditioning was originally done through the drills and equipment training (IE Stone locks, bags, water buckets etc…) it make sense that going slow was the original way to do them. They were tools for the advanced students to master the refined details, not train them up from the beginning. Actually, if you go even further back, you find that they were taught only to the new masters as a Diploma of sorts and not used in training at all.
Today forms are often used as beginners training, so they are externalified for that purpose. That is why you see so much of the “Fast and Hard” ways of doing the forms, and so little of the more advanced Taiji like ways.[/QUOTE]
Shi DeJian would definitely be at a level of respectibility to make that determination for his students. I’m very curious to see more of him, because to my knowledge he is still at Shaolin Temple. The main curriculum there, particularly the secular disciples involves some of the hardest and most powerful applications, soft internalizations, and yelling galore. If what you are saying is true to what he teaches, Shi Dejian’s curriculum is unique at Shaolin and in many ways opposite.
We start applying internal techniques in the second beginners form in Shaolin. By the time you’re doing Lohan boxing the interaction between internal and external is clear.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the externalized remark from. If Shifu shortens a long form like Xiaohongquan, then all of the elements of Xiaohongquan are still there. If he shortens Lohanquan then all of the elements are there, including the internal. I’m sure you’re basing the theory of externalization on on something you’ve experienced, but as far as drastic alterations of forms to exclude any intended internal content..that’s pretty bizarre and questionable stuff.
Lucas, definitely keep practicing if that’s the way your Sifu taught you. Since you’re enjoying internal and external methods, you should pick up a Damo Jian vcd and start doing that sword form. You’d pick it up pretty fast since your head seems to be in the right place.
[QUOTE=DeHui702;912024]Shi DeJian would definitely be at a level of respectibility to make that determination for his students. I’m very curious to see more of him, because to my knowledge he is still at Shaolin Temple.[/quote]
as far as i know he stays at another small temple in the mountains with his disciples and students. he’s not actually living in shaolin temple, and hasnt been for a while.
The main curriculum there, particularly the secular disciples involves some of the hardest and most powerful applications, soft internalizations, and yelling galore. If what you are saying is true to what he teaches, Shi Dejian’s curriculum is unique at Shaolin and in many ways opposite.
its unique because he is part of a lineage the others are not part of- from master wu gulun who was a former monk in shaolin in of the 1800’s.
however, the hard, external, yelling stuff is mostly from kids who train at schools around shaolin.
most of the monks in shaolin temple under abbot yongxin have an internal basis and do more grunting that screaming, which is like master dejian. they have a different lineage, that moves faster. but the internal elements are still there.