from what I’ve seen, it’s not primary, just supplementative. primary is throwing and controlling. then striking and ground work. If they are on a stealth mission and only have their hands and knives, they need to be able to take people out without causing a commotion.
It looks like you’re assuming that you will always be surrounded by the enemy. you may be sneaking up one someone, or you may be trying to secure a base that has been for the most part evacuated. there will not always be many many enemies around when you go to the ground. Also, it looks as if you’re assuming that the soldier will want to take someone to the ground. Don’t look at it that way. look at it as if you have been taken down and need to fight your way up before his buddies come along. With proper ground training, they are better prepared to do that.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SevenStar from what I’ve seen, it’s not primary, just supplementative. primary is throwing and controlling. then striking and ground work. If they are on a stealth mission and only have their hands and knives, they need to be able to take people out without causing a commotion.
OK, Thats fine, I thought it was their prime thing. I should make it clear that I’m talking about your average grunt here, not delta force (which should probably be trained in several MAs, one probably isn’t enough) or Spies or Secret Service. So what I am saying is predicated on the idea of a simple field battle, not some more arcane operation.
"It looks like you’re assuming that you will always be surrounded by the enemy. you may be sneaking up one someone, or you may be trying to secure a base that has been for the most part evacuated.
OK.
there will not always be many many enemies around when you go to the ground.
Better to plan for the worst, anyway, I am talking about your average GI Joe.
Also, it looks as if you’re assuming that the soldier will want to take someone to the ground.
If his primary MA is BJJ he would.
Don’t look at it that way. look at it as if you have been taken down and need to fight your way up before his buddies come along. With proper ground training, they are better prepared to do that.
One of the scary stories that was told was watching the scene from Saving Private Ryan…when the german and us soldier were ground fighting over a KNIFE. Eventually with the german mounting and stabbing the US soldier. The basic LINE drills does not offer resistance…BJJ and BOXING offers it! BJJ is simple to tackle somebody and then CUT HIS THROAT while controlling his limbs. Also in scenes like WE WERE SOLDIERs numerous US had to fight against the VC…some ended on the ground wrestling with the VC…eventually who got MOUNT got the STAB in. Overall…it’s just hand to hand training which is 10% of your military training…don’t look too much into it! The LINE stuff was boring and very ineffective for the SOLDIERs. So they took it out!
The Marines teach a hybrid form of MAs: Judo and BJJ for throwing and grappling, with some Muay Thai added in for shin kicks and such. The core of their system, which is a legitimate MA, is based on Okinawan White Crane Karate. You’ve seen people mention previously that they or their Marine friends are learning a system of fighting that relies on, among many things, pressure point tactics. The ranking system consists of belts (dan system). A “lifer” could train in this system until they reach a BB level.
You’re kind of missing the point. BJJ training is going to help these guys get UP. Nobody is going to wallow around looking for a submission down there. It’s not self-defense. It’s a battlefield. Completely different issue. Why does everybody assume that BJJ means “let’s stay on the ground?” What it really means is “I can control the range of the fight better than you.”
One thing a lot of people forget is that you may be on the ground because someone put you there - then what do you do?
Another thing - of course you don’t want to go to the ground when a bunch of people are attacking you, but it takes grappling to stop the takedown. Punching alone is not enough.
And let’s not pretend that you’d be better off standing, surrounded by 5 oopponents anyway …
Your fighting one guy, his pal comes up behind you - guess what, Now you are grappling. THAT’s what happens when a bunch of people attack you at the same time. Don’t act like it’s going to be some Bruce Lee movie where everone waits their turn to get punched in the face by you.
The Military knows this & that’s why they prepare their soldiers for everything. It’s hilarious to see all these back seat military experts on here.
Every time I hear people with no ground skills talk about this type of thing, it’s always, “you don’t want to be there anyway!”
Then you come into a Judo or BJJ school, or meet up with a wrestler and in 10 seconds, your flat on your back kicking and flailing about.
Punch, kick, ground fight, do everything or eventually, someone will force you to be some place you don’t know how to fight.
Jimmy :"And let’s not pretend that you’d be better off standing, surrounded by 5 oopponents anyway … "
Actually, lets pretend that. I have an amazing system that I could use against such an attack :it’s call run-your ass off Karate. In any event, even if I could retreat, I could (maybe) blind two people before I’m killed by the other three. On the grond I’d just die without any collateral damage being done to my attackers. It’s a small counter- but I feel it is worth the effort.
Originally posted by omegapoint The Marines teach a hybrid form of MAs: Judo and BJJ for throwing and grappling, with some Muay Thai added in for shin kicks and such. The CORE OF THEIR SYSTEM, which is a legitimate MA, is based on OKINAWAN WHITE CRANE KARATE. You’ve seen people mention previously that they or their Marine friends are learning a system of fighting that relies on, among many things, pressure point tactics. The ranking system consists of belts (dan system). A “lifer” could train in this system until they reach a BB level.
Yes I’ve been practicing my invisibility and it seems to work real well on KFO. Posting this isht again for the ADHDers. Grappling is fine to know, but it should never be primary. Survival knives hurt!
Originally posted by jimmy51131 You must have good aim … or super human powers.
-or-
You’re probably some teen age troll with an over active imagination.
R.I.F b i tch!!! You don’t understand what you read. My brother is in the Marines. Look it up instead of speculating. Does a TROLL post over 100 times on the same forum (actually I’ve been posting on this sorry arsed forum for years now). Maybe I need a name like JImmy or Bubba No Teeths- beeyotch!
BTW I’m 30+ years old, dumb s h it ! PP/Vital Point fighting includes grappling and hitting large vital areas and cavities. You obviously don’t know s h i t!
There is an article on it in a well known MAs Mag stoopid a s s!!! F u c k y ou!!!
What i learned in boot is not enough in my example. You need to keep refreshing for it to stick in which the Marine corps does not do. Same goes with urban combat training (cqb and mout ) training in wich most wars are likely to be in. I am lucky that we have had it now two years in a row but most units dont. What they have taught is helpful but nowhere near proficient enough
johnny
semper fidelis
Originally posted by SevenStar yeah, my guess is that’s why they started the classes and the ranking system. It offers you the chance to continue training H2H past boot camp.
Even the Marines who are on that do not get the training unless a billet opens up. I as a reserve have done more training than in that area then my active duty cousin. Believe the do not do enough to be proficient. I wish they did.
johnny
i havent even bothered reading the entire thread, but i thought an email i got from my buddy fit the topic … .
> hey mike…
> got hurt myself but it comes with the territory… I am going back to pre ranger school and when i make it through this time there is talk of me getting my own fire team…which means i will be in charge of 3 muther fukers and make them a killing machine…well gonna make this short till i know this goes through write me soon
> Your partners in crime,
> Bishop and Lili
cool . ..im glad you got to read my email and responded to this address.
>
>that sucks dude, how did you get hurt? how are you reading your email . .. from the base or are you on leave?
>
>i think it’s cool they’ll put you in charge of some fresh meet. you should tell them that being a human kick shield is part of the training. when they ask what that has to do with shooting slap them in the mouth and make em do push ups.
>
>what made you decide to join the military? was it just for the insurance? what branch are you in anyway?
>
>how is the other hand to hand there? i imagine you’re liking the wingchun more but i have never seen what the military offers to know for sure. read a pamphlet that the trainers are supposed to read before training the soldiers and it seemed to make allot of seen though.
hey mike,
it was pretty much the inusranse but it has been fun… the armys martial arts is gracie style jujitsu…it’s not bad but the thing is in combat the last place i would want to be is on the ground but ohh well t o logic when i said"serve and protect the constitution of the us" I live at home and have a computer the army gave me…but its for me not work…really tired have to get some sleep…keep us posted on your surgerys
I was refering to sitting 5 feet off the ground while cameras pan 360*… I didn’t know there was a “Matrix” style out there…
Has anyone ever seen a movie called “The Devils Brigade?” It was about the first commando unit of the OSS, forerunner of the CIA. They had some interesting scenes of their h2h training. A friend of mines dad was in the unit. It was nasty stuff.
