I havent figured that one out yet. I may be too busy eating my PB&J to answer that. 
pulls up lawn chair and popcorn to watch the next phase of the silly argument 
lueb, people who have been fed the kungfu vs wushu story wonât be able to handle the idea very readily that in the end, itâs all good.
Contemporary wushu practitioners for the most part are far more advanced than traditional kungfu practitioners on average.
Many reputable and well known sifu of traditional styles also teach contemporary wushu and have no issues with running the two courses together. IN fact, it is a much smoother transition for the contemporary wushu athlete to make the crossover to traditional kungfu than it is for someone who does traditional wushu to map over to contemporary.
One is for performance the other is for application, but many who study traditional (read most) do not have the ability to apply it and what they have is just shape anyway.
In short, itâs all good and contemporary wushu quite simply exposes all kungfu to the world moreso than small closed clubs that practice in secret like some story they read.
No insult intended, but there are a hella lotta bull headed stubborn and narrowminded so called traditional kungfu people out there who thinks there poo poo is smelling like roses. But you donât see them performing too often for the benefit of anything beyond self promotion or enhancement of their own school.
For me, this damages the whole shebang. If that sounds harsh, so be it. Hard cheese and all that. I still practice trad and mma and I tip my hat to the contemporary wushu folks, what they do is of high skill as any other ma out there.
Im with you 100% DJ.
Clouded their judgement, it is. The jam with the penut butter, together well it goes. MMMMMâŚ
When you make love, if you try to please your love one then you are a TCMA guy (apply to your opponent). If you try only to please yourself then you are a modern WUshu dancer (apply only to yourself). There is big difference there.
Whatâs wrong with the modern Wushu dancing? They have emphasised on the wrong stuff. They have ignored the most important âcombatâ portion of the TCMA but emphasis on the performance part that has little to do with âcombatâ. For example, all their jumping kick starts from running. In any fight, your opponent will not allow you to run 10 feet and then jump kick at his head. They donât even âbendâ their knee when they do that jumping kick (the kicking leg not the jumping leg) which is NO NO in TCMA standard. In their form you wonât be able to see any valuable combat combo but demo on how flexible they are.
TCMA vs. modern Wushu dancing are just like democracy vs communist, Either TCMA kills Modern Wushu dancing or the other way around, they just cannot co-exist under the sun and moon. When the weed grow in your yard, it will kill the grass and then take over. I made exactly the same statement to the National Wushu chairman Hsu Tza in Jinnan, China in an offical meeting 10 years ago. I also made the statement that the reason Wushu weapon are so fragile was because communist government was afraid that Chinese people could use Wushu weapon to start a revolution. I could still remember Hsuâs face turned to green when I said that. He almost sent me to the concentration camp if I didnot hold a US passport and also a member of âUS TCMA friendship visiting Chinaâ team. I guess he didnât want to start a war between US and China at that time but I do know that I made him mad big time.
The modern Wushu dancing trains a bunch of âdancersâ in their young age (before 30). Their goal is to please the judges and audience and look good in their âsilk pajameâ. Nothing wrong to please the audience in any show business but thatâs not CMA.
The first time that Beijing opera came to US, the general public were not familiar with it. When the main actors performed nobody cared, the moment that soldiers came out and performed some flipping and turnning in the air, the audience all got crazy about it. This general behavor gave the Beijing opera group a lots of problem. Should they send the main actors or just the secondary soldier performers next time when they visit US? Iâm glad that they sticked to their believe and did not modify according to US public taste. Otherwise we wonât be able to have beautiful music, beautiful singing, beautiful body language but only âflip in the airâ left in Beijing opera.
âBu Whei kan Ran Now, Whei Kan Men Dao - If you donât know then you only appreciate the outside fancy look, if you know then you will appreciate the inner artâ.
That is Western Analogy.
Chinese people prefer rice or noodles.
Kung fu is rice or noodle dishes.
Wushu is add a quart of bleach.
YKW, I would agree with your post.
I think all of the arts are tough and take some time to learn. A lot of time that is. And Wushu perpetuates that old racist feeling many get that Chinese people can all do Kung Fu or that it looks like flips, spinning kicks, and other fancy stuff. I think it does require a lot of skill, but a skill in one arena and one that is very removed from traditional combat oriented Kung Fu. Some train for the ring in MMA, some train for the judges in either Wushu competition or point sparring, and others still train for the street if anything were to happen. Mainly to protect themselves. I donât think that any spinning jumping flipping kicks would be very good in a wintery place. Itâs practicality is there but it is not something I would use to defend myself.
Traditional Kung Fu is a very complicated and intricate art and takes a long time to learn, and to understand, but as every day goes by one gets a better understanding of what it is. The basics give you technique and shape but the advanced stuff is where you ingrain and incorporate the art into who you are. I doubt if many reach that point. Many do not have the patience to study something so in depth. Many think they need to try the grass on the other side, but then, they say they want something that is more effective now and lets me fight all the time! How many actually get into fights with their so-called ineffective art? In the Western world, probably not too many. Unless you seek them out by cage battles or attitude, but that is something compeletely different. Therefore, Wushu, not a great system like Kung Fu, or approach like Kung Fu, but it gives people what they are looking for and feel is necessary.
To sum it up, people will seek out what they feel benefits them and although I personally donât like to see Wushu called Kung Fu because it is not a combat art, (Where is the IRon Palm, where is the steel weapons???), I have nothing against those who enjoy it but I feel traditional CMA is much more appropriate for self-defense.
those âsolk pajamaâsâ are mad comfortable and prefer them over the rugged cotton kung fu uniform for competition. heck silk is so smooth against your skin :o 
Whatâs wrong with CMA for just sport or art?
Modern Wushu like it or not is one aspect of Chinese Martial Arts taken to one extreme (art & sport). Modern Wushu is not the âbe all and end allâ of Chinese Martial Arts, but simply one aspect of it and should not be taken to be the sole representation of Chinese Martial Arts as a whole. In fact most practitioners of Modern Wushu are quick to admit both that and what they do is not really for self defense, so whereâs the harm in that?
Pointing out things like the weight of weapons, running into jump kicks, excessive acrobatics is pretty much irrelevant really because they (practitioners of Modern Wushu) are practicing not for combat purposes but for sport and art. If so called âpracticalityâ is oneâs only argument against Modern Wushu, then one should perhaps look at many of the âtraditionalâ practices; Lion Dancing, Qigong training, classical weaponry, etc⌠and start canceling them out. Come on Traditional Kung Fu might as well get rid of all of their âSteelâ weapons and trade them in for guns, rifles, hunting knives & baseball bats. The time spent practicing with a Nine Ring Combat Steel Broadsword or other such items would probably be better spent on a heavy bag, hitting focus mitts or sparring. And then Lion Dancing well whatâs the point in that? Whereâs the applicability? If you havenât clued in, I am playing Devilâs Advocate here. Personally I appreciate Lion Dancing, Traditional Styles & weaponry however to me they are also not the sole definition of the Chinese Martial Arts.
Modern Wushu, as well as other more recent additions to the Chinese Martial Arts spectrum like San Shou, the whole Shaolin subculture thing and so on are pretty much here to stay. I personally think it would be better if some out there would just realize that and just try to embrace the Chinese Martial Arts not as one thing or another but rather the sum of many parts. But then thatâs just my opinion.
Sounds like some guys are comfortable living in a medieval fantasy or something.
lol
Kungfu for health and self defense, wushu for exhillerating performance and for the sportive combative aspect there is the san shou, or whatever the name of the week is, mma, san da, chinese kickboxing etc etc.
How does anyone think weilding a classical weapon like a Kwan Dao or a Darn Dao has any more validity than the athletics displayed in contemporary wushu?
These are aspects of Kungfu that have pretty much zero application in todays world, you will never be able to test whether or not your sword form is defensively or offensively effective unless you go out and become some kind of psycho killer of course. You will likely never know if there is any value at all in that part of the training.
Iron palm is another thing that you can ask yourself, when are you going to use that? How are you going to be able to tell that your form work is meting out as effective and applicable combat? Especially when the only people you cross hands with are doing the same dance as you all the time?
The hard line traditional kungfu point of view is in my opinion silly. As is the performance wushu is for self defense line of view. Each has itâs purpose.
People are making it clear that these things, all of them are for the sheer joy of doing. Some aspects have practical purpose, and large parts of the practice of martial arts in whatever name you wanna call it has little or no purpose other than this. Stay healthy, grow old and be limber still, etc etc.
To look down on other arts isnât part of having kungfu. That I know for sure.
Seems to be lots of subjective posts and not much substance, the question is what is the difference not what is better or applicable etc.
so basically look at the textbook type answers and ignore evryone else, hate it when people post in someones thread and dont even read the question properly.
I.E. he doesnt want your opinion he just wants facts.
Wushu=martial art (wether traditional or contemporary)
Kung fu=hard to learn skill (in western circles mistakenly used to mean chinese martial art).
lol, I believe your interpretation has been posted several times already.
In general, I agree with your final points as the answer to the original question.
Nevertheless, there is seemingly a lot of folk who carry around their teacherâs opinions of things as opposed to forming their own reality from their own critical thought. This is not uncommon in martial arts practitioners I find. lol
Are you including your self here Dave?
absotively! I used to carry around my teachers opinions as if they were the ultimate in the correct.
But with time, experience and acquired knowledge, my position and stance on many things changed, remained the same on some and completely reversed on others.
Itâs all part of being human.
Know yourself, and you will know the world and all that.
so true, guess it takes some alot longer than others to realise this.
Thanks a lot for all the replies.
Just wondering one more thing, so Wushu, I have gathered, essentially means chinese martial arts, and there is traditional and contemporary, the latter being the performance orientated art. Is traditional wushu basically the styles that Mantis, Northern Fist etc all fit under? Because I know that these such traditional styles are practical, but would such a style as Seven Star Preying Mantis fall under the banner of âTraditional Wushuâ?
Yes, many schools today are a mix of both traditional and contemporary wushu which even further blurs the lines i.e i learn seven star mantis but my school also enters many wushu type competitions or sum such senario.
Originally Posted by Tiger on Duty
Seems to be lots of subjective posts and not much substance, the question is what is the difference not what is better or applicable etc.
so basically look at the textbook type answers and ignore evryone else, hate it when people post in someones thread and dont even read the question properly.
I.E. he doesnt want your opinion he just wants facts.
Wushu=martial art (wether traditional or contemporary)
Kung fu=hard to learn skill (in western circles mistakenly used to mean chinese martial art).
I wouldnât say kungfu(or gongfu/gungfu) is âmistakenlyâ used, as itâs a perfectly legit term that was used by some Chinese to refer to Chinese martial arts. I think of it more as slang.
Thanks a lot for all the replies.
Just wondering one more thing, so Wushu, I have gathered, essentially means chinese martial arts, and there is traditional and contemporary, the latter being the performance orientated art. Is traditional wushu basically the styles that Mantis, Northern Fist etc all fit under? Because I know that these such traditional styles are practical, but would such a style as Seven Star Preying Mantis fall under the banner of âTraditional Wushuâ?
Traditional wushu is generally older styles like mantis, northern shaolin, etc.
Contemporary wushu has 4 main divisions: Chang Quan (based on 5 major traditional longfist styles), Nan Quan (based on Southern fist styles but generally still with chang quan basics), Taiji Quan (based on 4 major taiji styles⌠24 form, 48 form, 66 form, etc.), and San Shou/San Da (a mixed martial fighting format and training method⌠combo of kickboxing and wrestling basically, and thereâs a san shou form, but I havenât seen it⌠donât know how wide spread it is). It also includes various forms based on traditional styles developed for competition, and individually created competition forms. There used to be international compulsory forms for competition, but theyâre no longer used in the world championships. At high levels of competition wushu athletes will either specialize in forms or fighting. This started happening mostly after the cultural revolution, but every once in awhile you get someone who can be highly competitive in both (like Jason Yee: competed in nan quan and san shou at the world championships, or Javon Holmes: placed in top 3 in both contemp. forms and san shou at national championships, I believe). As the years go on though, the competition level raises for each (and competition forms standards become more acrobatic) so itâs harder and harder to do.
and letsâ not forget thet whole âgheyâ vs ânot gheyâ thing.
hahahahahaha.
If you canât take a joke, thenâŚyouâre probably taking things too seriously.
Are you chinese brad?
some of those wushu guys have a harder time throwing a good punch than doing a really flashy gymnastic trick. (mainly the ones that do it for a hobby, not a job. but you see where the emphasis is on getting points) not all of course, but just check out some of those videos. i saw this guy doing a changquan form where he could do a xuan feng jiao inside kick and land in the splits but when he threw a punch it looked like he has butter fists. argh!! this is why i love the compulsory, everybody had good fist and stance.