I feel that you should dedicate to one art but be familiar with all others you cross. This way you wont be suprised by any fighter you come across.
---------------------------“uh oh, what is going to happen next?”
how can you do that though? that insinuates that you can understand another art without actually practicing it. and while i think you can make certain logical leaps from observation or by relating something to what you already know, i also believe that there are some insights that come from actually doing.
for example, i could make predictions about a knifefighter’s behavior just based on what i know about knives. but having actually trained to use one, i believe i have a better idea what to expect.
does that make sense?
Perfect sense.
By the same token, fighting other stylists will teach you things about how your style responds to certain threats better than taking another style.
City, your toast will never go unbuttered again! -The Tic
very well put, kc!
i think you’ve just hit on the essence of style hopping. there’s no sense of relation between one experience and the other. rather than learning something about yourself and your practice by exposure to other styles, you train in one style then another hoping that the presence of both (rather than the synthesis of one into the other) will guarantee success.
in other words, training in boxing and then training in judo is no guarantee that you will be able to use both in a flowing manner. if you don’t give considerable thought to how to transition from one to the other, then it won’t work.
boxing punches and judo throws (generalizations, i realise). but without some sort of connective strategy, they won’t fit together. (how do i go from the punching range effectively to a takedown range?)
so whether you’re sticking with one style or crosstraining in several, the process seems the same. start with one thing, then relate new things to it, building an understanding.
to do otherwise (to start over with a new understanding with each new style) seems a bit counterproductive: style hopping.
i’ve thought for a while now that the distinction between crosstraining and not is not nearly as profound as it seems.
stuart b.
I agree. Eventually, I want to learn pa kua, but part of the selection process that led me to pa kua(other than it being the shiznit) is that my system already contains some pa kua, and the transition would be natural, the styles would complement each other, and then I’d have a lot of throws, which I want to involve more of in my fighting.
City, your toast will never go unbuttered again! -The Tic
exactly. that way, new additions become part of a growing understanding and not just a new but separate thing.
besides, you’d get to “walk the circle.” i never get to walk the circle. in eskrima, i’m stuck with these crummy triangles.
[grin stupidly]
stuart b.
Cross Training
Personally, I enjoy studying a variety of arts and learning new perspectives in regards to fighting. I’m wondering, though, how smart it is to study a number of different arts at the same time. In my case, it looks like I’ll be starting Bujinkan Taijutsu with the new year(woohoo!). I’m trying to decide, though, if I should also study Kung Fu at the same time. I would like to learn at the Hsing I academy when I get my new job but I’m wonderig if it’s wise to do so or if studying the multiple styles will screw up my training. If I go to the Hsing Institute and study taijutsu, I’ll be doing 4 different styles at once(Pa Kua, TaiJi, Hsing I, Ninjutsu). What do you guys’ think?
-ZC
I’m all for crosstraining. Dunno if I’d train 3 internal styles at once though.
I don’t know about 4 different styles at once.I have studied 4 different styles in a 20 year period 5 if you include boxing.They all have something to offer and I have learned very good techniques from all of them.
The most I’ve studied at one time is 2 different styles.I really don’t think I could handle anymore than that because of life in general you know, work,girlfriend,social life with friends,but mostly because of work.
So any more than 2 styles at one time for me would be to scatterd out.I wouldn’t really get a good grasp on any certain art.
But I guess it would be better than no art at all.
So I guess you really have to decide for yourself.
Do you think you can handle all that at one time.
Do you have the time to do 4 arts.
Will you leave yourself thinned out and not getting a true hold on any given art.
If you think you can, go for it.
But think it over first(and what the hell it can’t hurt to try)
I’d say stick with the Bujin, at least for a while. The art may be Japanese, but they use Chinese mechanics. Don’t put too much on your plate at once. Hatsumi’s a friggin genius and has excellant material. Check your teacher’s credential’s with Noda City first, there’s a lot of crap and the Bujin keep pretty good records of who is and isn’t what they claim.
Pick something and stick with it until it is a part of you. Understand it and be able to use it. Usage is the heart of kung fu.
Learn from other schools by friendly fights with them.
Once you have a solid place to start from, identify your weaknesses and seek out those arts that fill them.
Otherwise your just collecting.
Follow MonkeySlap’s plan, or something along those lines. YOu don’t necessarily have to train in the other styles, just spar with people from those schools. Make friends with them; train with them outside of class. You will exchange techs with them, and learn things about their style by sparring with them. assimilate that which you find useful into your style.
Thanks guys. I figured I’d start with the Bujinkan and see how I progress there before branching out. I’m just thinking in the future, I’d like to do more, but 4 seemed a bit much(unless it’s Muay Thai, boxing and the like). At the Hsing I institute you have the option of studying all three at once and I liked that but I figured I’d be stretched really thin. Oh well, things to think about for a while. I think for now I’ll stay with the Bujinkan twice a week and TaiJi on the weekends. At least then I’ve got two arts without too much time hassle. Maybe I can tack on more later…
-ZC
I think MonkeySlap’s idea is pretty good.
Everyone needs a base, otherwise if you react instinctively what are you going to do? Hesitate:)
Hey zen_celt
its a good question and much debated on this forum. I am quickly becoming the most outspoken proponent for not cross training. I wont go into it since in general I get jumped on like a three legged cat being chased by a pack of dogs.
I will say though that if you are determined to cross train, you should spend some real quality time building up the base to your “house”. I would highly recommend several years, the reason I say this is because you want to learn your base intimately, get to know it so well that you can look at each form, technique, or what have you and find a few permutations for each. Most dont have one specific use but can be altered slightly to adjust for all kinds of eventualities. Once you get to the point where you feel you know your art inside and out, then branch out.
Cross training several arts at once is folly. Like I was told a while back, if you are cross training several arts at once, and especially just learning them, everytime you switch you have to empty your cup and refill it. For beginners this can take some time.
HHhmmm
Hope I dont put you off but that Taijutsu course sounds decidely dodgy if you ask me. Many internal arts Masters spent their whole lifes trying to reach mastery in just one field and it took them all that continued effort to reach theri acheivements. I do not feel that doing a combined course like that will get anyone very far.
Plus how can that be an internal course when you’re studying Ninjutsu mixed in with it? Granted Tai Chi, Hsing-I and Bagua are Internal arts but ninjutsu certainly isn’t an internal art in the way that ther other three are. That course sounds a little suspect to me.
Cross Training?
I’ve seen a lot of MA’s out there who are in really crappy general condition. Fat taekwondo teachers, fat sifus, fat sensai’s. It’s hard to believe that these guys could go 2 rounds let alone 10 rounds. What do you guys think about that? Can you be a good martial artist and be a fat? And what do you do outside of MA’s to cross train?
I’ve started running a couple of miles 3 times a week. Although I’m really strong and fit, my body fat seems higher than it should be and I think it slows me down. So I’m working in some cardiovascular on the side.
Theory
I’m going to have to say yes on this one.
Sice MA training is not for the ring a practitioner does not need to be able to go 10 rounds.
MA trainig is for Self defence so in a street situation the Chubby MA only need to last mabey 1 minute.
Most street fights don’t last very long.
On the otherhand just letting oneself get into that kind of shape is like a weakness in ones training.
My JKD instructor says he intentionaly gained weight because he was getting tired of being thrown around by his BJJ mates. Now, he is lightning fast and really powerful and I would never want to mess with his ice cream eating @ss.
Cardio is great and it is nice to be ripped (Think of the chicks Man!). But you can still have endurance and be carrying around a lot of fat. Their are ranges of cardio to train at for losing fat and for increasing endurance. At the high end of cardio training you stop burning fat. You can actually loose muscle if training at this intensity for too long without nourishment.
Good luck with your training.
Fu-Pow, I think it is all about what you are doing it for in the first place. If you want to fight professionally, then you better be in good shape! But for your average MA guy, I don think it is all that important. I think you can still be a good MA and be fat, or can even teach good MA and be fat. I have seen some guys who could use a few less calories in thier diet but are good martial artist, not the kind of guy you would want to mess with.
My first MA teacher ever was a big guy, but man he could stay with the best of us in sparring and he was good!
We have a couple of overweight black belts who can outspar me and almost everyone else any day of the week (and I’m quite trim). So, size really shouldn’t matter that much.
Martial arts should condition you to be able to take care of yourself in real life. If, in real life you’re fat, then you’re training should make you able to take care of yourself as a fat person.
Robin