a person can get continual progress without hooking themselves up to a stopwatch or a hrm or whatever. it’s not difficult to know if you’re feeling faster, and it’s not difficult to see (or feel in your joints) if you’re losing weight. if you’re less winded after a difficult run, then you’re probably in better shape. imay not know that i shaved 12 seconds off my average per-mile time, but if my body tells me i worked hard, and i know i pushed myself properly, then i wouldn’t care what a stopwatch said.
i don’t put much stock in numbers. there are days in which a 7:15-minute-per-mile rate is better than a 7-minute-per-mile rate. since our bodies are always changing, our diets are changing, our moods are changing, etc. – i’d say a sour-mood 7:15 average is better than a perky 7:00 average, because of what was gained. it may not have been as fast, but sometimes greater gains are to be found in self-discipline or other facets of health than in stopwatch times.
if numbers are your goal, or you set your goals by numerical milestones, that’s fine for you. but it is not the only way of measuring progress, nor is it in any manner the best.
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree RTB ;). I’ve always been a science and maths type person. I like numbers.
Got an example for you. Just last Saturday morning, I did my usual Saturday run. I had a late night on Friday, so I was fatigued. I’m also tired on Saturdays after a week of PTP. Anyway, I did my sprint intervals. I knew I wasn’t as fast as usual. Kind of like your sour-mood 7:15 mpm vs perky 7:00. But I felt like I was pushing at least as hard as usual. I got on the computer and downloaded my HRM info. My HR was way lower than usual. I struggled to keep it above the lower limits, which is set at 151 bpm. Usually I struggle to keep it below 160 once I get going. Those numbers reliably tell me the effort I’m putting in.
The fallacy of this kind of thing is that heart rate isn’t the only metric in a whole-body exercise like running. If all you want is a fast heart rate, drink a pot of coffee and sit around masturbating.
Tobers – aye. i guess the problem is that the previously stated perspective was that numbers were the only real gauge of progress. i’m a numbers guy, too – unless i’m working out. when i work out, it’s all about effort and pushing myself, regardless of the progress. and somedays, the amount of effort isn’t the concern, but whether or not the effort is even there in the first place. some days, i honestly just don’t feel like working out. don’t wanna. i’d rather sit and play on my computer or go for a drive or whatever, and an hour out of my day toward fitness and health seems blah. so even making an effort to work out – not necessarily a fantastic one – is enough. for me to progress, consistency is key.
my goals are simple – strength, flexibility, cardiovascular and balance. if i look at my hand and say, “hm, that weight i’m lifting looks bigger than the one i used last week,” i’ll get the impression that i’m getting stronger. if i can do my front kick a little higher than last month, i’ll figure that i’m more flexible. and so on. basically, working out is very raw, and i like it that way.
Originally posted by Tak If all you want is a fast heart rate, drink a pot of coffee and sit around masturbating.
You do that too?! I thought that was my secret workout. :eek:
Anyway, I definitely agree that external factors will influence your HR. But I try to keep them fairly constant. I maintain the same crappy diet, I don’t drink much. Last Saturday was an example of the external factors (fatigue) affecting my HR.
I’d be interested in what else you consider a metric for running besides HR? Distance per time, or time per distance obviously (I can’t stop thinking in quantifiable methods)? I can’t see how how I feel is a measure of how I’ve run (3 hows in one sentence :D). All my running is time-based (and HR, but I read that afterwards, it doesn’t affect my running while I’m doing it). I don’t take distances into account at all, mainly because I just run around the local oval and there are no track markings there. I wouldn’t mind having a track to run on, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to visit a properly marked track.
RTB, I didn’t want to bring up weights, but that’s a classic example of numbers. I totally gauge my progress against what I’m lifting, not how I feel when I’m lifting (although while trying to maintain form, etc).
Anyway, I’m not disagreeing with you guys that numbers aren’t everything. Just arguing for the sake of arguing.
i guess my point is that i don’t use numbers themselves. if something is big and i can move it, go me. if it’s even bigger and i can still move it, go me. if i can’t yet, i’ll work toward it. i just don’t focus as much on specifics as much, and i don’t use extra gear to measure my progress.
Regardless of whether you rely on numbers or not, the results are still the same. Most people just want to see their achievements written down. Hence the belt system being so popular here in North America. I’ve seen guys carry a little clip board around the gym, jotting down every rep, set, and amount of weight they do. If that helps them improve, then more power to them.
When I entered the gym today, I realized I was ravished. I always make sure I’m fed before working out, but it was too late to go get something to eat. I worked out anyway, and ran longer than ever before, and wasn’t even at my limit when I stopped. About 2 minutes in I felt a small pain in my stomache, I thought it was a cramp, but realized it was just hunger and never got any worse. After the personal record-breaking run, I did some ab work and ran a little more. Then when I stopped I saw some black spots and felt like puking, two signs of a great work out
I think I’ll wait till I’m hungry tomorrow night before I work out and see if the results are similar.
Well, that’s probably your answer. I never eat before working out. I always lift weights before breakfast, do MA before dinner, run either before breakfast or before dinner. I ate once or twice before lifting many years ago when I started lifting, and I almost puked and felt sick for hours afterwards. I do, however, make sure that I’m properly hydrated before and during exercising. Some guys will drink a protein drink. Even that would be too much for me. If I eat within even 3 hours before a workout, that’s it for me. I prefer 5 hours or more. That’s not counting the trail mix that I snack on during the day every couple of hours.
Re your first paragraph: this is the first time ever that I’ve written out my lifting program on paper :o. You caught me. I’m in the middle of a 4 week wave cycle program and I literally stumble out of bed, take a piss, drink some juice and go straight out the back shed to lift. I often find it a bit difficult to get my head going early in the morning, so I had to write the program down so I don’t forget it. I just stuck a little bit of paper to my power rack with the program on, though. No clipboard for me
Good luck with the cramps. Thumbs up to empty stomachs.
It’s all about the numbers for me. Psychological thing. E.g. a year ago I’d have been scared unracking 100kg on the benchpress. Now I do reps on 110kg. But unracking 110kg scares me, because it takes me to failure. You know that feeling when you unrack a heavy bench and it’s a scary heavy feeling? I’ve got spotter racks, but I don’t like failing. Unracking 107.5kg doesn’t scare me, because I can finish my sets at that weight. I’m aiming at the moment at hitting 112.5kg, but am I ready for it psychologically? I’ll tell you in 3 weeks;). In a year I might be lifting 120kg, and 110kg will be trivial. All in the numbers …
The bad guy shows back up. After reading my post again, I realize I was way out of line attitude wise, and even I thought I sounded arrogant and condescending. I am sorry for the little outburst.
Here was my real point. I didn’t really mean it like it sounded. I meant that if you are going to get in shape using running as your means to that end, then it helps a lot to understand what you are trying to achieve with running.
Running can be used in many different ways, just as weights can, to achieve many different things. The duration KungFuGuy was running, seemed that he was after getting in shape for endurance. But his approach was a little counterproductive to long term results in that arena.
Look, a good warm up is needed, even slow jogging. In running you should seek to understand what your body is doing at all times. Understand where your heart rate is always. You should be aiming to hit around 135-150 bpm, when running for endurance depending on your shape, age and weight. Once you have a solid endurance base, you can start using other techniques such as speed intervals, hills(resistance), or sprints. And there many way to do these things. They each have some different training effects. Some increase aerobic efficiency, while others target anaerobic threshold, while some target muscular strength in differing ratios. It is all specificity for running.
So, I still very highly recommend Runners World magazine, and some other fine running books. Those may not be your goals, but you will learn what the training effects are of various approaches to running.
The New York Road Runners Club Complete Book of Running by Lebow. You can get it cheap, and it is comprehensive and very understandable. Good luck on your running.
And BTW, it is not useless or a waste of your time to ask advice on this board. I was simply out of order. My sincere appologies to all the fine people on this forum.
