Contracting infectious diseases at the gym/kwoon?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
21

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1059093]Jamieson you have a horrible record when it comes to “facts” and “research”.

For the rest of you, there is not ONE case that they can say was in fact a combat sport case of HIV tranmission. NOT ONE

There are probably some HEP results, I would be more worried about HEP, but again, it is statisticaly LOW RISK

We have to BOTH be bleeding and your blood has to be go IN my wounds.

Again, the very nature of blood is that it bleeds OUT[/QUOTE]

Dude, if that’s your outlook, then I have to say it is unlikely I would advise anyone to ever train at one of your facilities.

You can’t possibly be that unaware and uneducated that you would allow someone to full contact fight in your facility without them passing a clean bill of health when you know that any legit fight in any place in the world will have that as a requirement.

whether it HAS happened or not is irrelevant, the fact that is CAN happen is enough to demand a clean bill of heath and clean blood work.

I am stymied that you as a gym owner take such a lackadaisical attitude towards blood born pathogens. It’s bordering on gross negligence.

My record on facts and research? Dave, you can look up the facts and research on blood born pathogens like anyone else. Even a 5 year old would tell you that it is unwise and unrecommended to allow it in your club.

yeesh man. I think you’re arguinmgh just for the sake of it or something.

If not, that’s amazing!

22

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1059096]

People with contagious blood born and skin diseases should not particpate in contact sports. Period.

[/QUOTE]

You know, there is a guy who competes in MMA who HAS HEP C but his “viral load” is so low he can’t infect you. It isn’t black and white.

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1059096]

I don’t want to train with them, and I surely wouldn’t want one of my students catching something for life because I failed to ask the right questions.[/QUOTE]

You can’t have every single one of your students take a blood test, and even if they did, would you have them continue to test every month for the rest of their time there?

Do you ban people with tattoos? That’s probably the #1 way people get hep.

Do you ask women if their boyfriends or husbands have hep? are IV drug abusers? visit “professionals”?

23

Jamieson, we have this new policy where we have pledged to be pleasant with everyone on the board

YES, you have a HORRIBLE track record of making claims that you can’t back up, you have claimed things are facts that are not, etc

You are woefully under educated and WRONG on this issue. I could explain to you in detail, but based upon your track record, I’m just going to save time. You’ve demonstrated you won’t accept things if they don’t fit into your “world view”

24

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1059099]Jamieson, we have this new policy where we have pledged to be pleasant with everyone on the board

YES, you have a HORRIBLE track record of making claims that you can’t back up, you have claimed things are facts that are not, etc

You are woefully under educated and WRONG on this issue. I could explain to you in detail, but based upon your track record, I’m just going to save time. You’ve demonstrated you won’t accept things if they don’t fit into your “world view”[/QUOTE]

Ross- I really don’t care what you think about me. Seriously. YOu make this claim of my horrible track record, but really, you’re just being a whiner because you get confronted with stuff and told you are lacking for it.

Listen, you run your club as you see fit. I do not see that as safe and I do not see your attitude as wise.

So get over yourself and come to realize that blood borne pathogens are a reality and you, as a club owner should exercise duty of care.

I don’t care what you think of me, but yoru attitude puts others at risk, period.

Do you want to argue with the reams of documentation that says you are wrong?

Crikey, you;re just being a jerky boy on this because it’s me?

f**k you ross and the horse you rode in on. lol that is insanely irresponsible.

25

I just think HIV testing in general is bullsh!t. The science behind it all is shaky at best. But testing to join a school or gym where blood and such may occassionaly fling around seems like a good and necessary precaution.

26

[QUOTE=brothernumber9;1059127]I just think HIV testing in general is bullsh!t. The science behind it all is shaky at best. But testing to join a school or gym where blood and such may occassionaly fling around seems like a good and necessary precaution.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure what you feel is so “shaky” about it. ELISA tests for antibodies. Practically anything that has ever entered your body has sparked production of antibodies. And now methods are available to test for presence of HIV viral RNA. Which can be done before antibodies develop and thus can detect primary infection or infection in newborns. Neither test is perfect, but the science behind it is actually quite sound.

27

[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1059132]I’m not sure what you feel is so “shaky” about it. ELISA tests for antibodies. Practically anything that has ever entered your body has sparked production of antibodies. And now methods are available to test for presence of HIV viral RNA. Which can be done before antibodies develop and thus can detect primary infection or infection in newborns. Neither test is perfect, but the science behind it is actually quite sound.[/QUOTE]

What does a positive test mean? I can test positive on one instance and negative on another of the same test. The antibodies being tested for have never been shown to be HIV specific. The manufacturers of the tests as well as the different labs that test them have different standards to what is positive and what is not. Why is that? Not to mention the test kits themselves state that the tests should not be used to DIAGNOSE for HIV but to screen for it. There is no gold standard. I say that sounds shaky. What does Luc Montaignier, who is credited for discovering HIV have to say about it?

28

I work with blood everyday in a medical facility. So, maybe I can offer some relevant information.

Medical standards require us to let bleach set for 30 minutes on any surface in which blood has come in contact. You do not just wipe a bloody surface with bleach, you let it soak.

Hepatitis can be active up to 30 days on an unwashed surface. Hepatitis is far more common in the population than HIV/AIDS.
Hepatitis comes in seven forms: Hep A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Though only a few of these occur in developed countries.

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood off the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.

29

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1059120]Ross- I really don’t care what you think about me. Seriously. YOu make this claim of my horrible track record, but really, you’re just being a whiner because you get confronted with stuff and told you are lacking for it.

[/QUOTE]

Some us remember your claim that “in the US people go to prison for debt”

That debacle you are STILL running from.

Now, because I respect Gene, welcome to my ignore list

30

[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1059135]

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood of the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.[/QUOTE]

THIS…

plus +1

31

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1059139]Some us remember your claim that “in the US people go to prison for debt”

That debacle you are STILL running from.

Now, because I respect Gene, welcome to my ignore list[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: Just let it go dave, that kind of holding on hurts your liver. lol

seriously.

32

To prevent serious risk of infectious transmission, I suggest using bandaids.

33

[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1059135]I work with blood everyday in a medical facility. So, maybe I can offer some relevant information.

Medical standards require us to let bleach set for 30 minutes on any surface in which blood has come in contact. You do not just wipe a bloody surface with bleach, you let it soak.

Hepatitis can be active up to 30 days on an unwashed surface. Hepatitis is far more common in the population than HIV/AIDS.
Hepatitis comes in seven forms: Hep A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Though only a few of these occur in developed countries.

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood of the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.[/QUOTE]

to be fair, most people’s students are not drawing blood.

However, there are some clubs that play a little harder than others and even though it is low, it is still a possibility.

so, knowing is half the battle. I think taking measures of precautions such as have been stated here, bleaching mats, no shared equipment, no pigpens on the floor and no continuance when blood is drawn.

all comps, if any require bloodtest and if you have anything, you will NOT fight, period.

the same rule should apply to anyone who wants to take up training to that end and therefore needs fc sparring and pre-comp fights.

having low risk doesn’t mean no risk and it’s only responsible to minimize the risk and not the reality that there is one.

P.S for Dave Ross, fpr when you do read this:

…in Minnesota many debtors spend up to 48 hours in cells with criminals. Consumer attorneys say such arrests are increasing in many states, including Arkansas, Arizona and Washington, driven by a bad economy, high consumer debt and a growing industry that buys bad debts and employs every means available to collect.

Whether a debtor is locked up depends largely on where the person lives, because enforcement is inconsistent from state to state, and even county to county.

In Illinois and southwest Indiana, some judges jail debtors for missing court-ordered debt payments. In extreme cases, people stay in jail until they raise a minimum payment. In January, a judge sentenced a Kenney, Ill., man to indefinite incarceration until he came up with $300 toward a lumber yard debt.

The law enforcement system has unwittingly become a tool of the debt collectors, said Michael Kinkley, an attorney in Spokane, Wash., who has represented arrested debtors. The debt collectors are abusing the system and intimidating people, and law enforcement is going along with it.

Just as an aside, don’t think that’s gonna chill either as you folks head into winter and more and more mortgage failures start hitting the books and more people have a harder time paying what they owe.

wrapping it up in other language doesn’t change the fact of the matter. If I’m wrong, please show me how.

sorry to burst your bubble. :rolleyes:

34

Some very interesting points so far, and some compelling arguments. Mooyingmantis’s input was very interesting.

There are other things to worry about, then just blood borne pathogens. I dunno how easy it would be to contract a form of Herpes from rolling with someone, but MRSA is a very real possibility, and not easily identifiable. And of course staph infections are quite common, even UFC stars such as Forrest Griffin and Big Nog couldn’t avoid them at the professional level.

Bleaching the mats are one precaution, but I have seen certain soaps that claim to help prevent MRSA, impetigo and other infections, yet I wonder how well they work and in what context?

35

Bottom line is there is risk involved in interacting with others in a combative setting where there is physical interchange with intensity.

Not only disease, but you could get injured in myriad ways while learning or practicing or applying martial arts.

risk, it’s there.

36

one thing with grapplers you will notice is a high level of personal hygiene… dirty people get called out right away when rolling… nobody wants to roll with somebody that stinks of anything other than sweat… that in itself may be really gross to some people, but we have an understanding within the grappling community… you wanna roll? be clean… otherwise people will just say ‘no, i wont roll with you’ and that could be pretty embarassing in a class session… people usually get with it pretty fast, or they just dont come back… its very rarely an issue… a few newcommers here and there who usually fall into line right away…

37

ew

There’s a vid if you follow the link. It’s pretty nasty, all over this kid’s face. Poor guy. That really sucks.

Wrestler with herpes virus urges delay of state meet
on March 3, 2016

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — A high school wrestler who believes he contracted a highly contagious virus known as “mat herpes” during a recent tournament in Northern California wants the upcoming state championships postponed so other students don’t contract the disease.

The San Jose Mercury News reports (http://bayareane.ws/21Kmh3T) Thursday that Blake Flovin believes he was infected with herpes gladiatorum during the Central Coast Section championships last month. His face is now covered in a severe red rash.

State interscholastic officials say they won’t cancel the tournament in the Central California valley Friday because they have in place rigid protocols to protect wrestlers from herpes gladiatorum, which is spread mostly through red skin lesions.

Skin checks are held before tournaments and any athlete with an active infection isn’t allowed to compete.


Photo: Google Maps
Archbishop Mitty High School in San Jose, Calif, where Blake Flovin wrestles. Flovin says he contracted herpes during a recent tournament.

But the wrestler says some athletes use bandages or make up to cover their rashes.

“The rules and the swiftness in the way they deal with skin issues in wrestling is flawed and kids and coaches try to skirt around the issues,” Blake said Wednesday.

The virus stays with wrestlers their entire lives. It can lie dormant for long periods of time. The virus becomes contagious when wrestlers have a flare up of lesions.

His father, Rick Flovin, also a wrestling coach, says hiding the disease is widespread because scholarships are at stake.

He says he helped launch some of the strictest hygiene standards in the sport, including requiring wrestlers to step in a pan of disinfectant before they hit the mat. That safety measure was not in place at Independence High, he said.

Officials with the California Interscholastic Federation, which governs all high school sports, said Wednesday that high schools are required to follow national safety standards.

“We’ve had many times where our doctors have removed an athlete who was showing symptoms or some sort of skin lesion. This is something we deal with on a regular basis,” said the organization’s senior director Brian Seymour, who is also tournament director in Bakersfield this weekend. “We follow protocol to the letter of the law.”

38

I once got a staph infection from a seemingly tidy school gym through my knee. After that episode, I would never “roll” without a rash guard.