Hi all, I’ve been asked to participate in a tournament two weeks from now at St. Andrew’s here in Chicago. The sparring catagory for black belts is “Continuous sparring,” but it’s point sparring. A long time ago I used to do point-sparring tournaments, how does this differ? Any advice? (besides making sure the judges are from my kwoon, that’s obvious :D)
P.S. Black happens to be the color of the belt that I use to hold up my pants, funny thing, strange way to make divisions. Has anyone else heard of this color-coding scheme? They might as well divide us by our last names, well - I digress.
as far as i understand, target areas and techniques are the same as in point sparring. but rather than break you up after a successful ‘score’, they just keep track of it and let you keep going.
means you’ve got to have a better defense, since it’s no longer just a matter of who gets there first.
It’s a continuos game of tag, only it has enough rules to insure injuries happen.
Even as a training drill, I don’t like it as the rules create too artificial of an environment, and that environment only exists for the game, not to teach something.
Man, I miss the old Bangkok Brawls at St. Andrews! Are things still going on there since Tom Letuli died?
I understand that there have been several exhibitions at St. Andrew’s, including a Letuli memorial event. I know there is an event there this weekend that is full-contact kickboxing or something. Those events are usually in the Gym, our little tournament will be in another building the “Center.”
You can always call our school Kung Fu Academy of Chicago, it’s in the yellow pages. Those guys keep up on that stuff, I just hear bits and pieces since I’m studying semi-privately.
Yeah, it should be fun. What I remember from point-sparring tournaments is that it is fun, useless, and you always get hurt. I used to win those thingies so I’ll probably go back to some of my old TKD tactics, probably would serve me well considering the rules.
It’s a continuos game of tag,
heavy handed tag… but tag none the less… the last Continuous sparring event that i witnessed was quite brutal and bloody for something that was supposed to be considered “light”…
Continous sparring requires better stamina in the participants. I know the tournaments down here also score the fighters on how well they last the bout. If one guy dies towards the end and the other guy is still going, guy #2 gets some points. So, it ain’t enough to clock someone a few times early on and then fade away. That said the rules may differ in your part of the world.
Just make sure your fitness is up and you don’t fade toward the end. Good luck!
“If one guy dies towards the end and the other guy is still going, guy #2 gets some points. So, it ain’t enough to clock someone a few times early on and then fade away.”
Reply: Which sums up exactly why I don’t like it, it is too far removed from reality. The rules create an ‘artificial’ contact sport that ceases to develop good habits for fighting, and is almost gaurenteed to produce bad habits.
Reply: Which sums up exactly why I don’t like it, it is too far removed from reality. The rules create an ‘artificial’ contact sport that ceases to develop good habits for fighting, and is almost gaurenteed to produce bad habits. [/B][/QUOTE]
Bong- Boxing is not continuos sparring - boxing ALLOWS for contact. But it is still highly limited in the tools it builds. But because of the allowance for contact, you do not inculcate habits that are as bad as those developed by continuos point sparring.
Um, yeah, I’ve boxed, and the kwoon I used to own had a pro boxing team working out of it. There plenty of threads about the benefits of boxing training, but this is not one of them. I think you are confused about what continuos sparring is - a boxer would do well UNTIL he got disqualified for excessive contact!
Hey, are we talking about Ralph Pelouso’s Pam Ams?
The belt coloring thing is his attempt to standardise a leveling system because he is an open tournament with schools from all over competing from all styles. It allows him to keep some organasation.
Basically, if your at the intermediate level, you need to wear a purple sash advanced, Black and beginner white yellow etc.
If your school has a different ranking system, then you need to buy the appropriate belt or sash ahead of time.
How does continous point sparring make bad habits? It’s better than stoping after you tap the guy. I mean, in a real fight, I’m not going to stop trying to pummel you just because I get hit. Unless you knock me out. I’m going to keep going.
I am oppossed to ALL point sparring. Point sparring by it’s very nature makes the activity non-martial. Sort of an aggressive game of tag. By making it a game of tap-tap - you change the dynamics of the situation - the energy, the distance, the timing to the point where it builds habits that are good for ‘point fighting’, but are very bad for actual fighting. Froim the Shuai Chiao doctrine, you spending a lot of time and energy in a place where the fight isn’t happening.
Since I don’t fight ‘points’, I don’t play ‘point’ fighting.
I suppose it could be used for absolute beginners as a confidence building drill…
RD said: Unless you knock me out. I’m going to keep going.
Reply: Not true. I could throw you - taking away your physicval ability or desire to fight, I can damage your weapons to the point you no longer desire to fight, I can submit you with Qin Na, I could choke you out, etc..etc..
Not all of these are good for free fighting practice. But without power, without throws, without the energy created by allowing more of what you find in a real fight, you create an artificial construct that builds bads habits.
It’s not a choice between one-point or continuos point. It’s a matter of opening up the rules to allow a more well rounded practice.
Make sense? Realize I am talking from the point of view of my objectives - which is to be able to fight, not compete in point games. The doctrine that evolves from this is built on developing certain skills and attributes. Skills and attributes that are not developed by point sparring - of any kind.
I could be seen as splitting hairs - but to me they are important hairs
OK, it’s “Chicago Kung Fu Championships” sponsored by T.C.M.A.C. I’ve been to the venue before, it’s a little small and there are no bleachers. Action could be alot, or could be a little. I’m going anyway because my Sifu asked me to and my kwoon is a sponsor of the event. “full Cage mask for continuous sparring” That sucks.
About the belt thing, we don’t use them so I was just making a joke. You’re supposed to have 5 years of experience to fight in the Black Belt division, and it’s the only division to offer continuous sparring. If I add all my study together, over the last 15 years, I think I might scrape up against that number. I am not willing to do straight-up point sparring, it’s too far from what we do know.
I did some point sparring many years ago, I’d say that point sparring is better than no sparring, albeit not by much. I think that the sparring we did in TKD class would be similar to "continuous sparring, " we pulled our head punches, restricted target area, etc.
Yeah, it’s just a sport, and not even the most fun. Example: our last (full-contact) sparring session, I could see (and feel) that it is not good to trade a jab for an overhand right. But in the “points” scenario, these are two equal creatures. Not to mention that I like to kick low. Still, I think I’ll do alright based on my previous TKD experience, which followed similar rules. I don’t know about this Cage-mask thing, though, doesn’t that mess up your peripheral vision?
Fa Jing said: I don’t know about this Cage-mask thing, though, doesn’t that mess up your peripheral vision?
Reply: Some do, I’ve found it to be tolerable. The cage serves to limit blood splashes and keep down the possiblity of transmitting blood borne pathogens. It limits giving someone an intintial mess-up shot, but hey, it is just sparring.
The mask can be better in competition than boxing head gear because boxing head gear can get pushed across your face by an overhand slap and cover your eyes. The face cage headgear tends to stay on.
Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
[B]I am oppossed to ALL point sparring. Point sparring by it’s very nature makes the activity non-martial. Sort of an aggressive game of tag. By making it a game of tap-tap - you change the dynamics of the situation - the energy, the distance, the timing to the point where it builds habits that are good for ‘point fighting’, but are very bad for actual fighting. Froim the Shuai Chiao doctrine, you spending a lot of time and energy in a place where the fight isn’t happening.
Since I don’t fight ‘points’, I don’t play ‘point’ fighting.
I suppose it could be used for absolute beginners as a confidence building drill… [/B]
yeah, what the bastard said. There are alot of strategies seen and encouraged in point fighting that leave you open to get drilled if it were actual contact. Considering you fight how you train, the same habits will manifest themselves, and guess what? you get drilled. you may also get into the habit of pulling punches, and kicking high frquently, as you get more points for a kick. most tournies give 2 points for a kick, and some give 3 for a head kick.
