Claims about MMA

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Mixed Martial Arts
21

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775084]I reject his argument because it sidesteps the point. We can keep adding styles to that list till we’re blue in the face.

However, notice that none of them are Chinese. That whole knowledge base has been dismissed as “the same” or with “nothing new to offer” or hong kong phooey.

My point of bringing this up is that there are UNIQUE things from TCMA that can add to the knowledge base of MMA despite the claims of some on this board.[/QUOTE]

I would be interested in some of the techniques you had in mind. I do think that TCMA must have something to offer that is not commonly used in MMA fights, especially in the area of striking.

The Superman/Cobra punch is a technique becoming more popular. GSP knocked Matt Hughes down with it in their 2nd fight and almost stopped him at the end of round 1.

I’d never seen a spinning heel kick attempted in MMA nevermind done successfully (TWICE) until I saw Cung Le’s fight with Fryklund.

I think a move like Iron Palm could be pulled off successfully in MMA and become a useful technique to anyone who mastered it.

22

[QUOTE=MysticNinjaJay;775088]I’d never seen a spinning heel kick attempted in MMA nevermind done successfully (TWICE) until I saw Cung Le’s fight with Fryklund.[/QUOTE]

They are used occassionally. Heck, even Gonzaga threw one at CroCop.

23

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775082]BTW, don’t try to tell me that San Shou is a Chinese Martial Art…its a format.[/QUOTE]

LOL @ double standards!:smiley:

Another “format”, not “style” - Pankration :wink:

24

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775087]A) Chinese arts aren’t typically “Combat Sports.”[/quote]

So the MMA “style”=an amalgam of combat sports? Ok, I agree.

B) If San Shou is a format, then so is MMA.

I specifically defined MMA in my first sentence of this thread as Judo, BJJ and Muy Thai. Ok, so let’s suppose that definition MMA is a bit too narrow. I’ll concede that.

The arguments made to me by you and others have been made specifically about those arts that MOST TYPICALLY make up the curricula of MMA.

Such and such has that or such and such has this. The argument is that there is nothing unique about TCMA that can’t be found in those arts that typically make up the curricula of MMA pracititioners. Is that specific enough for you?

On that point I disagree. There are novel things about TCMA… not found anywhere else. It maybe a complete difference or it may be a difference of emphasis and/or mechanics.

FP

25

Ffs

What works and what does not work in MMA has been pressure tested and is constantly being fined tuned. When declaring that what the MMA crowd has proven to be effective is hubris is inaccurate. This is self-confidence that is developed through constant success with the use of field testing.

 Hubris is assuming that untested technique and skill will prevail at any given moment. Hubris is assuming that you are in good enough shape to out run your attacker/s or conditioned enough to take a really hard shot to the jaw. Hubris  would be best defined by the following technique clips that I discovered when researching the Looang Foo Pai School. My former roommate recommended them to me when I decided to start training again. 
 
 Even though this post may come off as being disrespectful, possibly a troll, but I am actually trying to make a point. These techniques are indicative of what is being passed as actual self defense in many traditional systems. I often see on many boards that Oh my style is the real deal and your style is crap ect ect. But if you compare most TMA self defense side by side it basically all follows the same structure.

 Just so it doesnt seem like I am attacking these gentlemen only, I will add several clips that will mirror the same kind of nonsense that is prevalent through out TCMA or TMA.

1a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103680 (Lethal rib breaking
nipple strikes.)

1b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFBd-Az7Xw (took me a while to find
another nipple strike video.. OMG DEATH TOUCH)

2a )http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103246 :rolleyes: Kung fu’s
solution to the Ultimate fighter jab cross combo… Is it just me or would he
have eaten that cross?

2b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1X1OMVlXpg (More jab cross defense. Its
so pretty)

2c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ASdKml6zU (even more silly punch defense)

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103085 FFS!! tearing ligaments apart with a tiger claw???:mad: Against someone resisting, that pain would have caused a jerk reaction. This means he would have pulled away and that tiger claw, lo kou whatever, wouldn’t have been able to hold on.

4a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102838 Sigh, just sigh…

4b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENp6o1_srVY Sigh, He watched Body guard from Beijing one to many times.(Wing Chun)

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102785… WHATs MY NAME!!! Now
    that was just funny as hell.

6a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102627 (Breaking the arm and the ribs:confused: Nonsense!!! The real nonsense of this self defense technique is that is done off of a lead hand jab.

6b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lbNGvvrSM0 Just as silly as the above link!

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102499 (The real Chin na…sigh.)

  2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQg1FvFAaPo (Knife defense using Chin-na assuming that the person is compliant enough for you to pull all that off) Sigh

Just to reply to Fu pows original post

Quote To my knowledge there are over 300 styles of Kung Fu that have been documented in China so I find it kind of silly to say that in all cases “MMA already has it.”

Even if there are that many Kung-fu systems, how many ways can you throw, strike, trip, grapple, elbow, kick or knee a person? Isnt it more likely that over time in attempt to be unique more elaborate techniques, that may or may not work, were designed to differentiate systems?

Quote Fu Pow The MMA training methodology is geared toward solving a certain problem.

 All martial arts are geared towards solving the same problem and that is survival. If you think there is any other reason to learn how to defend yourself you are delusional. 

 Now let me ask you this. Do you think so called pure street self-defense martial artist are more likely to prevail against a street attacker? Pair a MMA format practioner versus the Self-defense person I am willing to bet the person who trained to actually fight would prevail. When I say trained, I mean a person who has learned to take a blow, pressure tested their technique and understands the difference between ring fighting, street fighting, slow roll, pad work or even kung fu technique drills.

Ring fighting has rules and we all know and understand what that means..right? Within a rule set certain things are excluded, but it is ignorant to believe that if it is not done in the ring that the MMA rule set fighter wouldnt use it in the street or be prepared for it. I know here people will insert Oh, but wait, multiple attackers. Can MMA deal with that? Well can any martial arts really deal with that? If you say yes, please go study with the guy in clip 4b. 

 The next universal comment is probably Wait, what about the glass and the concrete ohhh and the baby duckies! Unless you are training in a school that has concrete floors covered in glass no one will be ready. 

 There is always going to be a bit of the unknown during a street fight. Regardless if it is glass on the floor, a person with a bat, multiple attackers or my Sister-in-law chasing after you the person who has trained to actually deal with the encounter will more than likely survive against an attack than the person who Larps it.

Quote Masterkiller
The hubris of CMA assuming that they have “something special” that is not found within the context of one or more other styles is the real issue.

I agree!!!

Quote Fu Pow
My point of bringing this up is that there are UNIQUE things from TCMA that can add to the knowledge base of MMA despite the claims of some on this board.

 What does it posses that it can add that is wholly unique in nature, not found in other systems represented in any pressure tested combat format ? When I say comabt format I do not mean against pads, heavy bags or dummies. I mean against someone who is going to move his head when you try to eye gouge him, squeeze his thighs together when you try to pinch his groin or actually take the punch, smile, then head butt you in the face.....

Quote Mystic
I think a move like Iron Palm could be pulled off successfully in MMA and become a useful technique to anyone who mastered it.

NINJA PLEASE.. You made me spit juice out of my nose! I was so trying to be serious and you gone and made me lose my composure.

wow… long post sorry…

26

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775111]
I specifically defined MMA in my first sentence of this thread as Judo, BJJ and Muy Thai. Ok, so let’s suppose that definition MMA is a bit too narrow. I’ll concede that. [/quote]

MMA is a competition format, regardless of how you personally define it.

The argument is that there is nothing unique about TCMA that can’t be found in those arts that typically make up the curricula of MMA pracititioners. Is that specific enough for you?

On that point I disagree. There are novel things about TCMA… not found anywhere else. It maybe a complete difference or it may be a difference of emphasis and/or mechanics.

Sure, TCMA has LOTS of stuff not found in most competition arts because

a) some techniques are illegal in competition and
b) fighting has evolved, and
c) TCMA has a lot of unbelievably overcomplicated and obtuse techniques

Of couse, since you’ve never taken an “MMA” class or sparred in an MMA format, you are obviously more qualified to make assumptions about it’s content.

27

1a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103680 (Lethal rib breaking
nipple strikes.)

1b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFBd-Az7Xw (took me a while to find
another nipple strike video….. OMG DEATH TOUCH)

2a )http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103246 :rolleyes: Kung fu’s
solution to the Ultimate fighter jab cross combo… Is it just me or would he
have eaten that cross?

2b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1X1OMVlXpg (More jab cross defense. It’s
so pretty)

2c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ASdKml6zU (even more silly punch defense)

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961103085 FFS!! tearing ligaments apart with a tiger claw???:mad: Against someone resisting, that pain would have caused a jerk reaction. This means he would have pulled away and that tiger claw, lo kou whatever, wouldn’t have been able to hold on.

4a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102838 Sigh, just sigh…

4b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENp6o1_srVY Sigh, He watched Body guard from Beijing one to many times.(Wing Chun)

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102785… WHATs MY NAME!!! Now
    that was just funny as hell.

6a) http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102627 (Breaking the arm and the ribs:confused: Nonsense!!! The real nonsense of this self defense technique is that is done off of a lead hand jab.

6b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lbNGvvrSM0 Just as silly as the above link!

  1. http://www.imagestation.com/4110950/3961102499 (The real Chin na…sigh.)

  2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQg1FvFAaPo (Knife defense using Chin-na assuming that the person is compliant enough for you to pull all that off) Sigh

What do you keep this ready to post around?

You’re going to take the weakest examples and say that this is indicative of everyone and every style. That’s totally illogical.

Even if there are that many Kung-fu systems, how many ways can you throw, strike, trip, grapple, elbow, kick or knee a person? Isn’t it more likely that over time in attempt to be unique more elaborate techniques, that may or may not work, were designed to differentiate systems?

How many ways can build a house with the same materials? How many ways can you cook food with the same ingredients? Well?

Granted, not all houses are going to be as well built, not all dishes are going to taste as good. You will start to find commonalities in approaches to doing things well but outside of those commonalities you will always find diversity. To ignore that diversity or shun it is to lose out.

 All martial arts are geared towards solving the same problem and that is survival. If you think there is any other reason to learn how to defend yourself you are delusional.

MMA is geared toward solving a certain problem. How to win MMA matches. What I hear consistently from people in MMA is “if it doesn’t win MMA matches it won’t be accepted or adopted into the MMA curricula.” So don’t try to make MMA about training for “self-defense”, that may be a side benefit but the focus is always on competition and those competitions are used as the criteria for what is considered valid and what is not.

What I’m saying is there may be some techniques or approaches in TCMA that do not currently exist in the curricula and will help you win matches. To write that off or to say its all “equivalent” is just stupid.

 Now let me ask you this. Do you think “so called” pure street self-defense martial artist are more likely to prevail against a street attacker? Pair a MMA format practioner versus the “Self-defense person” I am willing to bet the person who trained to actually fight would prevail. When I say trained, I mean a person who has learned to take a blow, pressure tested their technique and understands the difference between ring fighting, street fighting, slow roll, pad work or even kung fu technique drills.

I’m not going to get into the ring vs street argument. That’s not the point of this thread. Let’s keep it in the ring for now.

FYI, I agree with the concept of competition as part of training for self-defense. I’m just saying that there are some UNIQUE aspects of TCMA in terms of strategy, technique and methodology that WILL find its way into MMA…eventually, despite resistance from its current adherents.

FP

28

a) some techniques are illegal in competition[QUOTE]

Plus, most of these illegal techniques do not really work as most people assume.
The usual knee break kick, throat strike that supposedly always hits it mark, the fabled groin kick of doom, the standing elbow break and ummmm… which ones did I forget? oh and the fabled crush a nose into the brain thing.

[QUOTE]Fu Pow
There are novel things about TCMA… not found anywhere else. It

Fu Pow, Novel does not mean effective. It may have been effective when everyone was fighting in a similar manner meaning kung fu versus kung fu. If this was so, then shouldn’t you be able to be recreated a full contact Kung fu event where the techniques were used instead of all the kung fu practitioners falling back on kick boxing skills.

Shan Shou shows the throwing skills, striking skills of Kung fu but is no different that having judo and kick boxing together. Shuai Jiao is not that diffrent than Judo and they can reproduce effectively and realistically what they say they can do. These arts and rule sets I can respect but the rest sometimes is pure nonsense and larping.

Master Killer

But when you are talking about things that really work vs theory, it’s all the same sh1t.

I have to disagree here. Theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; [SIZE=“2”][SIZE=“4”]“theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses”[/SIZE][/SIZE]; “true in fact and theory”

What most people, especialy those in the clips, are doing is called hypothesizing which is a tentative theory about the natural world; [SIZE=“3”]a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena;[/SIZE] "[SIZE=“3”]a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"[/SIZE]; “he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices”

29

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775123]MMA is a competition format, regardless of how you personally define it. [/quote]

Actually, if you want to get technical NHB, UFC, IFL, Pride, Vale Tudo, Pankration, are the “formats.”

The competitors in these formats practice MMA which is a compendium of arts that are trained to compete in these type of formats. Typically, the most successful training program has been drawn from Judo, BJJ and Muy Thai.

You think that because a student of MMA’s training is comprised of several different arts that a practitioner of MMA has no “style.”?

B.S. because the MMA practitioner usually pulls training, techniques from several different styles…from an approved list.

I was told specifically by you and others that these approved “styles” have everything that TCMA has, its just called something different.

And I still disagree with that.

Sure, TCMA has LOTS of stuff not found in most competition arts because

a) some techniques are illegal in competition and
b) fighting has evolved, and
c) TCMA has a lot of unbelievably overcomplicated and obtuse techniques

That’s not what I’m talking about.

Of couse, since you’ve never taken an “MMA” class or sparred in an MMA format, you are obviously more qualified to make assumptions about it’s content.

Argumentum ad hominem, do you really want to go down that road? You have a very limited knowledge of what I do and don’t know. And I certainly don’t know anything about you accept the Northern Shaolin form clips that you posted a few year back…which to me looked like Wushu.

In other words, you talk the MMA talk but I haven’t seen you walk the MMA walk.

FP

30

[QUOTE=Notintheface;775125]What most people, especialy those in the clips, are doing is called hypothesizing which is a tentative theory about the natural world"[/QUOTE] OK. I’ll buy that.

31

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775126]In other words, you talk the MMA talk but I haven’t seen you walk the MMA walk.

I’ve offered to meet you for dim sum in New York in August… and the silence was deafening.

FP[/QUOTE]
My answer is on the main board.

32

Sorry Fu Pow I am not that fast a poster. It takes me a while to type things up.

Quote Fu pow: What do you keep this ready to post around?

You’re going to take the weakest examples and say that this is indicative of everyone and every style. That’s totally illogical.

Actually, I was sent half of them from my former roommate and the rest I looked up on you tube in order to draw a comparison so as not to seem like i was picking on anyone style or teacher.

Are you saying that these people are the weakest examples of Kung fu? Can you provide better examples of Kung fu self defense? I have been looking at video of Ying ming yang the Chin-na guy, Kenpo videos, silat and many others and they all seem to showing the same kind of material. Not saying all of their techniques are ineffective but a majority of it I would say “Yes it is nonsense.”

Fu Pow
How many ways can build a house with the same materials? How many ways can you cook food with the same ingredients?

Well, argument wise this is comparing apples to oranges but I’ll make it fit. A poorly built home will not provide shelter for long and will crumble. Poorly cooked food would not be eaten unless it is the last resort. Even if you use the same ingredients in a dish one will prove to be tastier and the more effective combination. It is still apples and oranges but a poorly developed Martial Artist will be less effective than a properly prepared, blah,blah blah Martial artist/MMAer/fighter.

Fu pow
To ignore that diversity or shun it is to lose out

That is why you taste, test, observe, test, test, test, test and did I say test something till proven to be useful. This is the way you advance in anything. If not, you may be holding onto something that’s not worth a dam.

Fu pow
So don’t try to make MMA about training for “self-defense”, that may be a side benefit but the focus is always on competition and those competitions are used as the criteria for what is considered valid and what is not.

Techniques not used in MMA or certain venues like, neck cracks, two handed neck chokes, throws that drop people on their heads, using the point of the elbow, fish hooking, small joint/finger manipulation, or what ever does not mean they do not train them. Do you think so-called MMAers do not actually practice these things? You do understand that most MMAers go to several different schools and learn Muay Thai, Judo, Boxing, ect,ect right? You do understand that a majority of the people training with a MMA mindset will never see the cage or the ring but the percentage of them fighting full contact and testing their skill is greater than 90%.
This will prepare them more than anything I have seen in TMA, TCMA, or even BS MMA schools. If you just did slow roll and technique training grappling would be BS as well.

Fu pow
What I’m saying is there may be some techniques or approaches in TCMA that do not currently exist in the curricula and will help you win matches

I understand what you are saying but can you thus far provide an example?

Fu pow I’m not going to get into the ring vs street argument. That’s not the point of this thread. Let’s keep it in the ring for now.

The ring gives you one thing those videos and what you are implying do not. In the ring you get hit. Getting used to the notion of being hit and removing that shock fear effect that occurs when you get hit for the first time and your game plan goes out the window.

Fu Pow
I’m just saying that there are some UNIQUE aspects of TCMA in terms of strategy, technique and methodology that WILL find its way into MMA…eventually, despite resistance from its current adherents.

Unique…waiting for an example, plus if you understood MMA they are willing to take in anything that WORKS and will EXPECT it be PROVEN despite the RESISTANCE of those who SWEAR what they do is actually EFFECTIVE. (hehehe see I can do that too)

33

Fu pow
reject his argument because it sidesteps the point. We can keep adding styles to that list till we’re blue in the face.

However, notice that none of them are Chinese. That whole knowledge base has been dismissed as “the same” or with “nothing new to offer” or hong kong phooey.

Oh, I see now, you are just mad because the Chinese arts are not given KUDOS. Until there is someone ,like Cung Lee, to give Kudos then you are without none. Cung lee is real and truthful about works for him and doesn't mix words. Plus, I would love to see someone with Shuai Jiao experience in the ring do some of those funky throws.

Master Killer
Chinese arts aren’t typically "Combat Sports.
"

 Combat sport or not they have created Shan Shou plus if the stories of the “Masters’ are true then they must have done some real fighting at some point in time. But like all methods of combat, you have to evolve with the times because it won’t wait to suit you.

Rocks>Spear>Bows>Guns>Missiles

 A of these are projectiles but their effectiveness is defined by today’s standards. But they all have their effectiveness grounded in proof. Right now, at this moment, kung fu is lacking that proof of true effectiveness other wise we would be seeing it in the ring or somewhere. This is of course minus those who do test their skill against resistant opponents like San Shou and Shuai Jiao.

Mystic I’d never seen a spinning heel kick attempted in MMA nevermind done successfully (TWICE) until I saw Cung Le’s fight with Fryklund.

 Yeah but that was not a great fight or a test of Cung’s skills. I just found it odd that Fryk basically just stood there like he was baffeled but yeah Cung Lee is a good fighter I can’t wait to see him go against someone of a higher caliber.
34

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775076]With shoulder strikes? Bull$hit.
[/QUOTE]

OK, as A)I’m a CLF instructor and you’re not, B )you’ve stated time and again that you weren’t taught to fight with your CLF, whereas I most definitely was , YOU DON’T GET TO CALL BS ON WHAT I SAY ABOUT CLF!
WTF do you think a Biu Ma is, if not a shoulder and/or hip strike? What do you get if you do Sow Chui at point blank range? What happens if you do a Fun Sau in Ding Ji Ma? Duh, that’s right, you hit them with your shoulder :rolleyes:

35

[QUOTE=Ben Gash;775148]OK, as A)I’m a CLF instructor and you’re not, B )you’ve stated time and again that you weren’t taught to fight with your CLF, whereas I most definitely was , YOU DON’T GET TO CALL BS ON WHAT I SAY ABOUT CLF!
WTF do you think a Biu Ma is, if not a shoulder and/or hip strike? What do you get if you do Sow Chui at point blank range? What happens if you do a Fun Sau in Ding Ji Ma? Duh, that’s right, you hit them with your shoulder :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

A) I WAS a CLF instructor and I don’t ever remember stating that I never learned to fight. What’s your lineage again…Doc Fai Wong. Yeah good fighters from that branch. :rolleyes:

B) Your shoulder strike “technique” is total bull****. I challenge you to show me how that could work…even with compliant partner.

FP

36

[QUOTE=Notintheface;775119]NINJA PLEASE….. You made me spit juice out of my nose! I was so trying to be serious and you gone and made me lose my composure.[/QUOTE]

Why not? Iron Palm techniques are very similar to training methods in Muay Thai.

Btw, what is your take on Cung Le vs. Tony Fryklund?

37

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775082]Why isn’t any Chinese martial art on that list? Despite your attempt to side step it, that’s my point now isn’t it. [/quote]

because you guys aren’t really competing mma - not enough to count it as part of mainstream mma curriculum. THAT is why you don’t see chinese styles. Why in the hell would you throw them into a list of mma styles when only .001% of mma competitors train cma?

BTW, don’t try to tell me that San Shou is a Chinese Martial Art…its a format.

mma is also a format. mma = striking and grappling. mma = the ruleset used for these striking and grappling venues. mma is a compilation of styles, but is not itself a style.

38

First things first, the only instance iron palm shares with Muay thai training is that the sandbag is a striking pad of sorts. Thai fighters do not want to injure the bone in the shin or in any part of their body. Fighters in Thailand would kick young banana trees, which are quite soft and give easily. Try to do this with a common oak tree down at the local park and you will easily develop stress fractures over time.

Now if you are referring to the iron palm secret internal strike or the way it generates power to break bricks, tiles, or concrete then no it wouldn’t be useful, actually it would be no different then a well place punch.

Internal strike or Dim Mak has not been prove to exist in any contect and if you say other wise I have a nice bridge to sell you.

Power generation used in the strike may or may not be useful. The mechanics of throwing a strong punch in different than what I have seen being used on objects. The materials that are broken are not as pliable or yielding as the human body. A majority of the time, especially on the non-trick breaks, the person is injured. Plus I think the padding of the gloves would stop alot of the Iron Palmers skills or so I have been told:rolleyes:

The fight was odd… it just seemed that Fryk was baffled as what to do with Cung Lee. Like the announcer said " He is picking him apart at will." Fryk was just throwing a few low kicks and some half hearted punches. It looked like Fryk was sparring with him and not fighting him but then again Cung lee hits hard, maybe Cung took his heart or something. By the by, I am not a Fryk fan but he did better in Anderson Silva vs Tony Fryklund match. Even though he got knocked out by a reverse elbow fought more than he did against Cung Lee. It was just a weird one sided fight. Oh and FYI I am soooo a Cung Lee fan, I LOVE his throws.

39

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775084]My point of bringing this up is that there are UNIQUE things from TCMA that can add to the knowledge base of MMA despite the claims of some on this board.
[/QUOTE]

possibly. But mma guys are a show me group. Until The cma world competes mma and consistently demonstrates said uniqueness with effectiveness, the mma world will not even poot in tcma’s direction. However, I am curious. What unique things are you referring to? we talked about the “superman punch”, which I mentioned has been in muay thai. In yet another thread, the spinning back and crescent were brought up - and they both exist in muay thai as well.

I’m not saying there is nothing unique to cma, however. Please, show it to us - or at least explain it.

40

[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775124]What I’m saying is there may be some techniques or approaches in TCMA that do not currently exist in the curricula and will help you win matches. To write that off or to say its all “equivalent” is just stupid.[/quote]

  1. show them to us.
  2. remember that combat sport styles came from somewhere - generally combat oriented styles. For sport purposes, techniques were removed for various reasons - some because they were malicious in nature and would not mesh with a competitive environment, others because they simply did not work consistently in the the ring.

FYI, I agree with the concept of competition as part of training for self-defense. I’m just saying that there are some UNIQUE aspects of TCMA in terms of strategy, technique and methodology that WILL find its way into MMA…eventually, despite resistance from its current adherents.

resistance? we don’t resist it, YOU HAVE YET TO SHOW IT TO US. MMA thrives on evolution. I guarantee you if you can show the mma crowd something that WORKS CONSISTENTLY, not just some technique that you say you have never seen in mma, then you will see mma guys start to adapt it. mma does not have a tornado kick, but until you start seeing people KOed by them in a fairly regular basis, they won’t bother trying to learn it. Why should they? they already have a proven format that works. When that format is compromised by something, that is when they adapt and evolve.