ok, this post is regarding the linkage between Chinese military kungfu and it’s alignment with… ballet.
Before anyone goes off here, they are seperate lines of study, but because of the military connection, they are linked.
There is in the chinese military a dance school that operates in tandem with the standard military training. It is harsh training to be sure. Much of the Chinese dance is classical ballet, but of course there is the martial arts flavour that finds it’s way into this art form expression.
I was fascinated recently with the story of one of Chinas top “military dancers” a certain Chin Sing. If you look more into her life you will be truly amazed, but that’s another subject entirely. The story of her life covered a lot of material regarding the training one recieves in the chinese military. With the cultural schools built into the chinese military, students as young as 8 or 9 years old become members of the Chinese Military and undertake the overall training. Pretty substantial when compared with the west and it’s militaries and the training regimens they encompass.
Military dancing is considered a pinacle of the art form in China, with as much interest and merit as the standardized wu shu propogated there. I was surprised.
Anybody else know anything about this and how the military came to the idea of having classical dance as part of its training.
i’ve always imagined professional/classical ballet dancing to be alot more brutal than martial arts training. i saw this documentary once on a european ballet school, and boy did they redefine the words ‘mental toughness’. they would practice everyday for around 12hrs, 7 days a week, and lived at the academy. the coach was really scary, ‘abusing’ them verbally and pushing them to their limits EVERY day. perfection was demanded and if they made 1 tiny mistake, they’d have to practice it OVER and OVER again.
if you look at the physique of male ballerinas, they’re actually in really good shape. very muscly and toned, alot bigger than most martial artists i’ve seen actually. i also saw in a magazine once this ballerina who was in between 2 walls and was holding himself up with his legs on both sides of it. i would assume the flexibility and strength required from ballerinas would be an added bonus for martial arts training. if you incorporate martial arts training with classical dance in the military, you’d probably end up with a lean mean killing machine!
I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in theatre (don’t mean to brag), and for that degree, I had to take many semesters of dance, and I’ll tell you what, I was way more scared of my ballet teacher than I am of any martial arts master I’ve ever had.
Her name was Juanita Berry, she was from Argentina, and she used to carry a stick around to hit you with. She would cackle when she overheard you calling her a “dance Nazi”.
Just thinking-
I was reading this week’s Army Times and it’s front page article is on real world hand to hand combat in today’s Army and how it’s being used in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a current push to promote a system comprised of Judo, boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, and BJJ for the modern soldier saying these systems are proven to be effective and primarily, can be taught fairly easily and made to work without too much theory, thought, and precision teaching- basically the kind of training that is often taught in MA schools. The idea is to teach a mass number of people combat effective techniques quickly and efficiently in such a manner as the student will also be able to retain, and thus use, the skills when it counts. Now, I think Kung Fu is effective and can be utilized on the streets and would most likely be better suited for use against multiple attackers than the systems stated aboveHowever, I have also noticed a number of people(on this forum and elsewhere) state that kung fu takes time to learn, which is the reason a 6 month student of Muay Thai can whoop a 6 month student of kung fu. So, can it be taught for military use, and if yes, how so?
Another question- Is it necessary(and if so, possible) to modify existing kung fu techniques to make them usable while wearing standard military issue combat gear (i.e. LCE, helmet, canteens, bayonet, M16, flak vest, combat boots etc.)? I know kung fu was taught to the Chinese armies of old, and probably today, and is used by modern day police, so why not the U.S. military?
Maybe it is and I just don’t know it?
-ZC
it takes years to become truly good at kung fu (well in my opinion)
think of it this way- someone who has been boxing for twenty years vs someone who has been practicing kung fu (under a good teacher) for twenty years- my moneys on the kung fu guy. same scenario after two years- boxing guy will knock his arse down.
Now why on earth would the military want to spend twenty years training someone- by that time they would be nearly 40.
I agree - teaching one style of kung fu to the military would be useless on a lot of levels: the time it takes to become effective, the changing requirements of military missions, and the impact that 70 pounds of gear has on any given fighting style.
For most soldiers, hand-to-hand training is presented with a “less is more” perspective, meaning, they learn 1-3 techniques to deal with a limited number of combat situations, and they train those techniques like crazy. This is basic combat training for every soldier, with the aim of staying alive or repulsing a direct assault whether he/she is rear-echelon support or front-line infantry. However, front-line troops receive more detailed training, in accordance with their type of mission (Green Beret vs. paratrooper, e.g.).
In terms of a kung fu system – the perspective of training cadre is that it takes years to really “become” a soldier. Many elements have to be added to a soldier’s knowledge and skill, beyond basic training, in order to become an effective individual fighter. With that in mind, you might look at soldiering as a form of kung fu in itself.
well, with my vast knowledge of ancient China (that=almost none) I’m going to evoke the power of assumption and say, there were quite a few career soldiers then (mostly officers) who would spend years, even a lifetime, sometimes from childhood, learning the art of soldiering. However, during times of war, men were pressed into service for short periods, as needed. Their knowledge of warfare would be considerably less than that of professional soldiers, but they did learn rudiments of fighting. When the emergency was over, they went home.
It’s not much different today, except that the army prefers all its soldiers to be constantly proficient, which is why in addition to career (active-duty) soldiers, there are several levels of reserves, all of whom are expected to maintain a basic combat skill & fitness level.
Not having read a post by lfmdc on the topic or relevent…
Kungfu basics is for a foundation of strength, endurance, and flexibility and Will. Soldiers kind-of get- that (mostly)-ish as they are healthy they can go to forms part of training.
Actively soldier might have different training package than non military student.
Kung-fu from can be shown to give an idea how to move in multiple person attacks while attacking or defending…
A form could be made-up with general -minded techniques which address every expectable attack from a group of individuals.
And this twelve moves or so can be practiced in any order. Practicing with a different order to help with flexibility of use. perhaps.
An introduction as warm-up and signifier of who trained you and a closing to verify your training, instruction. Different groups of the U.S. military could have their own small set of specified techniques for their own all-encompassing form. And when the people show someone they leave-out the introduction. Or only instructors or the betters at it get the opening And closing.
This all-encompassing form of a few techniques specified to branch; subform division; subform unit…~sort of thing could go to Secret-service types (They already have it but we are not supposed to know…(Joke, that was a humorism), police-types.?.
I was fliping through channels yesterday morning and on TCM they had an amazing army training film from like 1960 or something. The techniques were brutal you know police type techniques. They had awesome bayonet stuff.
A soldier is always with his weapon. Very rare will he not have it. If he runs out of ammo he keeps the weapon and puts on the bayonette or just clubs people.
Empty hand fighting is a skill, so is fighting with a weapon. Now you need time for both. Soldier do not drive out to a training area, they march for hours, train along the way, time is another issue.
Sure they have a new H2H, and it can be used as a sport (grappling) but realities make it difficult to do.
A soldier is always with his weapon. Very rare will he not have it. If he runs out of ammo he keeps the weapon and puts on the bayonette or just clubs people.
I’ll repost this. Sometimes things happen when the weapon won’t be at hand.
-minded techniques which address every expectable attack from a group of individuals.