Its time i made a video…you guys are on my side ..partners , like it or not we are a family.
maybe you can see what Im talking about in actions. I feel silly berating you, when you cant even evaluate my input properly, visually and with detailed input.
There are varying levels of VT…your nose is your guide, like mine.
actions speak louder than woids…
Cool KG, looking forward to that.
Kwan Sau is a combination of Bong Sau and a punch. It is performed on the Dummy the way it is because the Dummy is fixed…as it is with many actions in the form that cannot be performed correctly.
Kwan Sau = 50% Bong Sau 50% Strike. Anybody that is posing with Kwan Sau and trying to manipulate or control peoples arms with it need to step outside the Chi Sau bubble. That stuff don’t work in reality.
GH
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1026613] what if the opponent decides to grab both your arms instead of blocking you one arm at a time?
Cheers,
John[/QUOTE]
If your opponent tries to grab both your arms then maybe he is a little stupid. When you fight somebody they have one thing in mind. To land anything possible on you they can. Ving Tsun is a tool to help you deal deal with this mess. There would be nothing more pleasing for somebody to try and grab my arms in a fight. It would make it easier for me to box there ears in…
GH
[QUOTE=Graham H;1026638]Kwan Sau is a combination of Bong Sau and a punch. It is performed on the Dummy the way it is because the Dummy is fixed…as it is with many actions in the form that cannot be performed correctly.
Kwan Sau = 50% Bong Sau 50% Strike. Anybody that is posing with Kwan Sau and trying to manipulate or control peoples arms with it need to step outside the Chi Sau bubble. That stuff don’t work in reality.
GH[/QUOTE]
the strike should manipulate or control the opponents arm always. not just a chi sao idea
[QUOTE=anerlich;1026525]May not be the root cause, but it’s a symptom that’s hard to ignore.[/QUOTE]
And that’s just the way it is… There is a ton of inconsistency in what is called Wing Chun because there are no standards, no checks and balances, no real qualifications. You mainly have a whole lot of folks who heard this, or heard that, that have no real experience…
There are certain basics that are often ignored, correct (or any) body power generation, structure destruction, connected and correct use of tools, training to work with real energy and release of power, even in the classical training, etc–it’s clearly missing..
We see many examples of Chun on the net with no power, no body connection, no structure destruction, and instead slap happy/chop happy poses and methods that allow folks to “win” or look good in ChiSao (tag), etc.. That’s why none of this will never even be seen in any fight because it doesn’t address what happens in fights or what’s needed to win fights…
Agreement is great… but agreement on things where the core is missing or ignored won’t help anyone or any art reach any level of success..
Bah, you pansies !!
@john the drill i showed is a basic way of doing it, eventually depending on your level different scenarios can be added in from grabbing the hands (i guess its possible someone would be dumb enough to do this) to shooting at your legs and grappling, etc, etc…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1026549]in your opinion…you can do what you like with ‘kwan sao’ < im just opening your mind to a simple idea many seem to have lost for ‘signature’ poses…not a pose dude :D[/QUOTE]
Posture Kev. Not pose! 
I never suggested I could ‘do what I like’ either, but I think most of what I write here is just misinterpreted.
Quansau is specific. Even the NAME means something, and I’ll let you in on a little secret. There is NOTHING that states that quansau is used to attack two arms with one. There is NOTHING to suggest that both arms move at the same time. And there is absolutley NOTHING that suggests that you only practise this posture when you learn the 108 MYJ! :rolleyes: Seriously misguided info imho.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1026549]try it on desmond kwan sao him :D[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you ask him to come and see me?! You seem so keen for me to visit his school and offer some sort of challenge out to him dude. You like to stand behind your elders or something? 
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1026726]Posture Kev. Not pose! I never suggested I could ‘do what I like’ either, but I think most of what I write here is just misinterpreted.
Quansau is specific. Even the NAME means something, and I’ll let you in on a little secret. There is NOTHING that states that quansau is used to attack two arms with one. There is NOTHING to suggest that both arms move at the same time. And there is absolutley NOTHING that suggests that you only practise this posture when you learn the 108 MYJ! :rolleyes: Seriously misguided info imho.
Why don’t you ask him to come and see me?! You seem so keen for me to visit his school and offer some sort of challenge out to him dude. You like to stand behind your elders or something? :p[/QUOTE]
coming from the flag waving, ring of death merchant :rolleyes: your deluded…
[QUOTE=Graham H;1026639]If your opponent tries to grab both your arms then maybe he is a little stupid. When you fight somebody they have one thing in mind. To land anything possible on you they can. Ving Tsun is a tool to help you deal deal with this mess. There would be nothing more pleasing for somebody to try and grab my arms in a fight. It would make it easier for me to box there ears in…
GH[/QUOTE]
Thanks GH
Ok, what about if someone decides to take a couple of your punches and wrap you up and throw you to the ground? Typical jujitsu type scenario.
In my opinion, if we train our strikes effectively, the opponent would fall before being able to pull us down. But what if the opponent is used to taking punches? Do we have a back-up plan since we are not ground fighting specialists?
Cheers,
John
Many of my fights started with my wrists either both being grabbed, or the lead man sao while the guy/s would come low to make a strike…i used open palm strikes to good effect on the top of their heads for a stunning concussion. Or I would simply use the pressure sense we get from the seung ma toi ma to 'feel thier energy pulses as they tried to push me. I would use thier timing to make my move, sometimes to break out of the grabs to hit them, or let them grab my wrists knowing they couldnt hit me until they let go 
funny but after a while if a guy grabs the wrists its like okay now what ? head butts worked, elbows…
Bil gees lowering elbows are wrist grab escapes, even from 2 grabs with your back against a wall its very easy to regain your freedom from the grabs and continue…also a lan sao can be used with turning stances to simply put your elbow over their forearm as they push you…similar to chum kil…you can then take the energy of their pushing and keep them going into a wall etc…trap them and hit them or wait for …assistance
Lop sao drills also have tying up methods to trap a grabber who doesnt let go of your bong wrist…
why we dont grab except for lop, bad habit.
Man there’s no shortage in humor
[QUOTE=edward;1026891]Man there’s no shortage in humor[/QUOTE]
yeah!.. your video is proof of that
i know you keep cracking me up…i wish i can write as much as you and show zero at the same time.. that’s skill..
thanks !
[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;1026641]the strike should manipulate or control the opponents arm always. not just a chi sao idea[/QUOTE]
Would you care to explain???
GH
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1026881]Thanks GH
Ok, what about if someone decides to take a couple of your punches and wrap you up and throw you to the ground? Typical jujitsu type scenario.
In my opinion, if we train our strikes effectively, the opponent would fall before being able to pull us down. But what if the opponent is used to taking punches? Do we have a back-up plan since we are not ground fighting specialists?
Cheers,
John[/QUOTE]
John
I’m not sure using the words…“If someone decides”…As my Instructor says…there is no time in fighting to think. Chi Sau gives us the tools to react instinctively hopefully using the correct action to shut down your opponent by attacking. Your thinking is correct by stating that we must train our strikes. Ving Tsun is a method of using the whole body for punching. Attention should be given to training the punch. The whole system exercises this idea.
Nobody is superhuman. If we are out fought then its just not our day. Bil Jee tells this. We must use brains to cut ones losses. The best back up plan is to run away!!!
GH
"What if he does this ? " fighting is arm chair battling…what if they pull a gun or a knife ?
What if there are 2-3 more guys and your back is against the wall ? What if there are 2-3 or more of you and 5-6 of them with bottles , knives, crowd fighting in a chaotic environment ? Yes, sometimes you have to run, because the guy your trying to fight took off down the street when you started to attack him Its not always US that has to run from a fight.
Vt is like being a psycho attacker, caution has to be taken before witnesses , due to the fact that even though you may be the one 'defending ’ oneself, it looks to outsiders like a guy shoved you and you annihilated him for it with raining punches and kicks as he tries to get away from you…sometimes running away.
I have been involved in fights like this, where the ‘good guys’ vt friends , got involved defending waiters at a regular local Chinese restaurant we ate at from drunken ‘suits’ trying to fight them for ‘sport’ …the vt guys got arrested for being seen as the ones beating the others up by witnesses :D. Jail for the good guys! defending the waiters because they had become so violent in their abilities to defend themselves they appeared to be the ‘aggressors’ .
Mental attitudes change as you fight more, you become less inclined to wait for guys to even have a chance to ‘shape up’ or make a first move on you. At the first sign of trouble or someone in ‘your face’ the vt ‘welcome mat’ is unleashed and its over before it ever got going.
Experience will be the only way to gain this personal level of knowing when to deliver a preemptive strike. Making whatever the guy does less of an issue because they are dealing with a broken jaw, nose, concussion…or a change in attitude to getting close to you again
Like GH mentions , sometimes the Bear wins.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1027022]you become less inclined to wait for guys to even have a chance to ‘shape up’ or make a first move on you. At the first sign of trouble or someone in ‘your face’ the vt ‘welcome mat’ is unleashed and its over before it ever got going.
.[/QUOTE]
Perfect VT theory!!!
GH